2302 replies to this topic

[Ismo07]

Most places don’t. What Victoria has done is not business as usual.

 

Really where ever there are bike lanes you will see this... Those links weren't dug for, they are just standard...  Actually many places don't allow right on red, many do only with proper signage..  Look at the amount that allow it outright, not a long list....  And most countries do also have signs that will stop a right on a red at the very least.  Right on a red was to save gas and certainly increases accidents..  It is not actually the norm...

 

Turn on red - Wikipedia

 

Pedestrian and bicyclist safety[edit]

A 1981 US Department of Transportation study determined that the frequency of motor vehicle collisions with bicyclists and pedestrians when the vehicle was turning right increased significantly after the adoption of "Western RTOR". According to that study "Estimates of the magnitude of the increases ranged from 43% to 107% for pedestrian accidents and 72% to 123% for bicyclist accidents."^[59] A 1984 study found that where RTOR was allowed "all right-turning crashes increase by about 23%, pedestrian crashes by about 60%, and bicyclist crashes by about 100%."^[60] A 1993 study also concluded that RTOR increased crashes for pedestrians and cyclists, by 44% and 59% respectively.^[61]

Edited by Ismo07, 11 July 2022 - 01:57 PM.

[Mike K.]

From one of your links:

“The City of Portland Bureau of Transportation is trying out a new bike lane treatment on North Rosa Parks Way that they hope will lessen the risks of right-hook collisions.”

I think that’s what happened here, that scenario.

[Ismo07]

From one of your links:

“The City of Portland Bureau of Transportation is trying out a new bike lane treatment on North Rosa Parks Way that they hope will lessen the risks of right-hook collisions.”

I think that’s what happened here, that scenario.

 

Yes and that's why I provided a link to show what they will try, it's a more hybrid model.  The fact is that rights on red lead to more vehicle encounters with peds and bikes...  That Wharf part is so tight, it's only one lane for both through and turning traffic.

Edited by Ismo07, 11 July 2022 - 02:03 PM.

[Mike K.]

Yes, Wharf is an absolute dog’s breakfast.

Like we’ve been saying all along, the western edge of downtown is a complete mess made even more congested by the cluster of Government.

[Ismo07]

Yes, Wharf is an absolute dog’s breakfast.

Like we’ve been saying all along, the western edge of downtown is a complete mess made even more congested by the cluster of Government.

 

It is what it is, drive appropriately...  Per signage and lights...  There really isn't much to change...

[Mike K.]

*closure. Although maybe my fingers were trying to tell us something…

[Nparker]

...the western edge of downtown is a complete mess made even more congested by the cluster**** of our local Government.

There, fixed that for you.

[phx]

Traditionally, it wasn’t allowed to make right turns across through-traffic lanes, due to the risk.

 

But then somebody at city hall thought they knew better.

[Mike K.]

And they doubled down on Government, where you have a separated bike lane to the right of a row of parking, sharing the same lights as vehicles. Drivers are required to yield to the bikes, which they can’t see because of the parked cars.

[Ismo07]

And they doubled down on Government, where you have a separated bike lane to the right of a row of parking, sharing the same lights as vehicles. Drivers are required to yield to the bikes, which they can’t see because of the parked cars.

 

Give me a break....  All this time everyone screamed that a two lane bike lane is the worst (turns out it wasn't)... Now you can't see bikes behind cars when it's a single lane..?  Stop yelling at the clouds Karen...  If you don't want bikes on the road just say that..  

 

 

Traditionally, it wasn’t allowed to make right turns across through-traffic lanes, due to the risk.

 

But then somebody at city hall thought they knew better.

 

Yeah years ago Victoria City council changed it for North America...  

Edited by Ismo07, 12 July 2022 - 08:48 AM.

[dasmo]

Give me a break....  All this time everyone screamed that a two lane bike lane is the worst (turns out it wasn't)... Now you can't see bikes behind cars when it's a single lane..?  Stop yelling at the clouds Karen...  If you don't want bikes on the road just say that..  

 

 

 

Yeah years ago Victoria City council changed it for North America...  

So funny because you are the Karen here trying police other people's behaviors.. 

[Mike K.]

I can understand Ismo’s dilemma.

But a cycling lane right of a lane of parked cars, that traffic can turn across while all modes have the right of way isn’t safe. I suspect the cycling advocates would agree with me.

Since everywhere else we have dedicated lights, stick to that. But for some reason on Government we dropped the standard that was put in place six years ago.

[Ismo07]

I can understand Ismo’s dilemma.

But a cycling lane right of a lane of parked cars, that traffic can turn across while all modes have the right of way isn’t safe. I suspect the cycling advocates would agree with me.

Since everywhere else we have dedicated lights, stick to that. But for some reason on Government we dropped the standard that was out in place six years ago.

 

The parked cars protect the cyclists..  There isn't parking near corners and you can always see bikes along the road as you pass them...

 

 

So funny because you are the Karen here trying police other people's behaviors.. 

 

I'm not policing behaviors in the slightest...  Just responding to the silliest of comments...  First the only in Victoria is there no right on a red (when really it's most of the world) then this weirdness about bike lanes inside the parking lane hides bikes...  Laughable...  Just a hint of research before saying something and you won't hear from me...

Edited by Ismo07, 12 July 2022 - 09:04 AM.

[Mike K.]

The parked cars protect the cyclists.. There isn't parking near corners and you can always see bikes along the road as you pass them...

No they don’t at intersections, and no you can’t. Physical objects obstruct the cyclists.

[Mike K.]

Ah geez, Ismo.

I said the standard is not to have a two-way transportation corridor to the right of vehicles, prohibiting a turn on red. That’s how bad interaction happens.

[Ismo07]

Ah geez, Ismo.

I said the standard is not to have a two-way transportation corridor to the right of vehicles, prohibiting a turn on red. That’s how bad interaction happens.

 

I showed you every City with cycling infrastructure has no right on a red.  Two way lanes or one way lanes..  Some cities are trying the hybrid but that is rare. 

 

 

No they don’t at intersections, and no you can’t. Physical objects obstruct the cyclists.

 

Cars are not parked near the intersections..  Yes you can always see bikes as you drive up, typically they are higher than cars.  Yeah you might lose them behind a van but you should know where they are as you drive... Open eyes, follow traffic signs and signals and you will never hit a bike or pedestrian...

[dasmo]

I am a fan of bike lanes. When I lived in Rotterdam The made the place livable. One big difference there is they have implemented a consistent design language across the city and country. It's not over done, its good looking, well thought out and functional. Here is seems like every block has it's own design language. This makes it challenging to navigate both for bikes and cars. IT's also overdone making it too expensive to implement consistently. TONS of concreate and other features integrated into them. Imagine if our roads were done like this. Thankfully we have a national consistency there. IMO there should have been an effort to at least trail blaze in this regard. Could have even just gone to the Netherlands and stolen their design. Maybe just adapting a few changes in materials etc but they got it well ironed out. 

I will say I am super grateful for the Goose and E&N though. I use those a lot and they work awesome getting into town!

[Nparker]

I think the major difference between bike lanes elsewhere and here is the agenda behind their implementation. In other parts of the world the goal is to offer an attractive alternative to motor vehicle transportation; here the goal is to alienate and piss off vehicle drivers in the hope they will just go away. There is no other way to explain the nightmare on Vancouver Street other than pure hatred of drivers.

[Ismo07]

I am a fan of bike lanes. When I lived in Rotterdam The made the place livable. One big difference there is they have implemented a consistent design language across the city and country. It's not over done, its good looking, well thought out and functional. Here is seems like every block has it's own design language. This makes it challenging to navigate both for bikes and cars. IT's also overdone making it too expensive to implement consistently. TONS of concreate and other features integrated into them. Imagine if our roads were done like this. Thankfully we have a national consistency there. IMO there should have been an effort to at least trail blaze in this regard. Could have even just gone to the Netherlands and stolen their design. Maybe just adapting a few changes in materials etc but they got it well ironed out. 

I will say I am super grateful for the Goose and E&N though. I use those a lot and they work awesome getting into town!

 

Yeah they have an automatic no right on red and also have two lane bikes on one side...  In other parts of town they have one lane bike on each side...  but it is beautiful at least this video through downtown...  The amount of street right of way they have is ridiculous...  We just simply do not have this space downtown...

 

The Rotterdam Coolsingel has been reconstructed from a 4-lane road to a road with only two lanes for motor traffic and a wide cycle path. Most of the space is now for walking.

 

(435) Bicycle ride on the new Rotterdam Coolsingel - YouTube

Edited by Ismo07, 12 July 2022 - 09:48 AM.

[dasmo]

No we can't do it EXACTLY like there because there there are MANY alternatives. tram, train, car, bus, etc. All the more reason why nuking our one other option is not the way to go. Amsterdam also has huge park and rides outside the city. Here we are just removing parking and vehicle access. At least they kept two lanes. We just nuke Vancouver street entirely. I road there a lot on my bike. Never had an issue even without bike lanes. 

Whoever is in charge of design at the city just sucks frankly. spend some time actually designing before implementing.