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[Bicycles] Issues with bicycles and cyclists in Victoria


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#41 sebberry

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

?? I guess you need to explain what you mean by the difference between "practicable" and "practical". 

 

Thats said, I agree that two way bike lanes are a disaster waiting to happen, unless perhaps, they are separated from the road and have their own set of signals.  

 

In the MVA, practicable appears to mean that the action is required when possible. 

 

adjective
adjective: practicable
  1. able to be done or put into practice successfully.
    "the measures will be put into effect as soon as is reasonably practicable"

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#42 Mike K.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:16 AM

They aren't in other cities. Two-way protected bike lanes have spectacular safety records, especially when compared to a "shared street" like Pandora.

 

So that's what we're actually considering implementing here or that's just what you're using as an example?


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#43 Coreyburger

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:23 AM

So that's what we're actually considering implementing here or that's just what you're using as an example?

 

All two-way protected bike lanes share the same design feature some consider dangerous: two-way traffic. They differ mostly in intersection design.

 

For the not-TL;DR crowd: the research (http://otrec.us/project/583)



#44 Mike K.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:42 PM

Yes but is the City of Victoria considering "two-way protected bike lanes?"


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#45 jonny

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

I posted this article before. I think it should be a sticky.

 

http://www.calgarysu...ery-little-gain

 

These fluffy pet projects are beginning to drive me nuts.

 

People seem to have this romantic idea that we all should be cycling around in our white dresses with our picnic baskets full of baguettes and chardonnay, but we can't afford this stuff.


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#46 sebberry

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:00 PM

The speed limit reduction was sold to us in part as a way to increase cycling and walking by making it safer.  Let's see how well it works before we spend millions more on cycling infrastructure. 


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#47 Coreyburger

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

Yes but is the City of Victoria considering "two-way protected bike lanes?"

 

Yes, but what the protection is varies by installation. From mere paint buffer to plastic bollards to parked cars to planters.



#48 Mike K.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

So really what's happening is council wants two-way bike lanes with little more than a little bit of paint notifying drivers of the sudden change to bike lanes.

 

A protected bike lane acceptable for two lane cycling is this:

 

buffered_bike_lane4.jpg

 

 

Not this

 

2987359.jpg

 

 

...and I wonder how long the photographer had to wait around to catch four cyclists all in a row like that.


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#49 jonny

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

This is a bogus attempt at social engineering that won't work.

 

If people really wanted to get their fat butts out of their cars and onto bicycles they would have by now. Especially in a small city like Victoria with little traffic, a reasonable climate, lots of side streets and bike paths. 

 

People I know who cycle either do so because:

1) They are poor and can't afford a car; or,

2) They are cycling fanatics and love the health and environmental benefits.

 

I don't see how this will change anything other than reduce the flow of traffic. 



#50 sebberry

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

I'd be far more supportive of increased transit funding than I'd be of these new bike lanes.  And I take the bus about as much as I cycle.

 

We have busses that are over flowing and leaving passengers at stops because the demand for the service is so high.  I haven't seen bike lanes bursting with bicycles yet. 

 

The article Jonny posted makes it pretty clear - "build it and they will come" comes with too much risk.  Risk of having the bike infrastructure significantly underutilized while putting the squeeze on motorists. 

 

If we're going to spend money on transportation, make sure that it's good for the region.  Public transit fits this nicely. 

 

We keep going on about how biking is good for the environment, good for the cyclist, etc... but show me where a decrease in vehicle use and obesity/health issues is directly attributable to the investment in cycling infrastructure. 

 

I think people are far more likely to switch from car to bus than from car to bike if you're interested in eco-friendly transportation.


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#51 jonny

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:07 PM

I think people are far more likely to switch from car to bus than from car to bike if you're interested in eco-friendly transportation.

 

Cycling is very much a niche market sort of thing in North America and I don't see that changing.

 

Cars are too cheap and convenient. People don't want to get sweaty on their way to lunch or soaked from a rain shower.

 

If the most bicycle friendly city in North America couldn't do it (Portland), I don't know why we are ready to fork out tons of cash to try to accomplish the impossible.


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#52 sebberry

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:08 PM

If the most bicycle friendly city in North America couldn't do it (Portland), I don't know why we are ready to fork out tons of cash to try to accomplish the impossible.

 

It's feel-good.  Arriving at work dripping in a mix of sunscreen and sweat isn't feel-good.


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#53 Mike K.

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:09 PM

See it's easy for council to spend other people's money. It's only $5 million after all, and hey, if it doesn't attract more cyclists, that's ok, in ten years we'll just spend $7 million of someone else's money to return the infrastructure back to smart cars and electric vehicles.


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#54 Bingo

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

This is a bogus attempt at social engineering that won't work.

 

If people really wanted to get their fat butts out of their cars and onto bicycles they would have by now. Especially in a small city like Victoria with little traffic, a reasonable climate, lots of side streets and bike paths. 

 

People I know who cycle either do so because:

1) They are poor and can't afford a car; or,

2) They are cycling fanatics and love the health and environmental benefits.

 

I don't see how this will change anything other than reduce the flow of traffic. 

 

You can spend as much money as you want on randomly placed bike lanes, but if they don't align with your route, then cyclists will just use the side roads to get from A to B.



#55 Nparker

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

This is a bogus attempt at social engineering that won't work....

Throw the word "probably" between "won't" and "work" in the above sentence and you have the "modus operandi" of Victoria City Council. I believe they chant this at the beginning of each council session, right after they finish passing around the hookah and singing "Kumbaya".



#56 sebberry

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:23 PM

Shhhh!  Those are in-camera rituals that nobody is supposed to know about! 


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#57 jklymak

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:27 PM

 

In the MVA, practicable appears to mean that the action is required when possible. 

 

adjective
adjective: practicable
  1. able to be done or put into practice successfully.
    "the measures will be put into effect as soon as is reasonably practicable"

 

 

So, if its possible for me to get further right, you think that is the same a practicable?  I think I'd have died a long time ago riding my bike if I followed that advice.  



#58 Bingo

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

So really what's happening is council wants two-way bike lanes with little more than a little bit of paint notifying drivers of the sudden change to bike lanes.

 

A protected bike lane acceptable for two lane cycling is this:

 

buffered_bike_lane4.jpg

 

 

What about the cyclist who decides to pass another cyclist only to have a head on with third cyclist coming from the other direction in dark clothing on a rainy night with no light, and no helmet.? 



#59 jonny

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:23 AM

Those protected lanes look like they'd work really well on designated bicycling routes. I'd be supportive of that if it meant getting a lot of cyclists off the main vehicle roads.

 

A protected bike lane acceptable for two lane cycling is this:

 

buffered_bike_lane4.jpg

 

 



#60 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:57 AM

Problem is cyclists still continue to use alternative routes despite cycling infrastructure. Sometimes the busiest traffic arteries are not topographically conducive to cycling but the powers that be plow forward with them anyways.
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