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[Bicycles] Issues with bicycles and cyclists in Victoria


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#61 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:01 AM

Problem is cyclists still continue to use alternative routes despite cycling infrastructure. Sometimes the busiest traffic arteries are not topographically conducive to cycling but the powers that be plow forward with them anyways.

 

I strongly agree, but the routes that are proposed for updating are already amongst the busiest in the region (disclosure: I run the CRD's Bicycle Count Program)


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#62 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:03 AM

Can you outline what those routes are?

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#63 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:14 AM

Can you outline what those routes are?

 

Easiest to show on a map. Here are the numbers from the October 2013 count in the Core: https://www.crd.bc.c...map.pdf?sfvrsn=

and if you want the KMZ to view in Google Earth, it is here: https://www.crd.bc.c...rs.kmz?sfvrsn=2

 

The website for the full numbers: https://www.crd.bc.c...lan/bike-counts



#64 sebberry

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:15 AM

I strongly agree, but the routes that are proposed for updating are already amongst the busiest in the region (disclosure: I run the CRD's Bicycle Count Program)

 

I don't know what sort of stats are collected, do we know what percentage of commuters are cycling now compared to 5, 10 years ago?  How does that % compare with transit ridership?

 

It'd be interesting to know what impact the recently installed Pandora bike lanes have had on cycling numbers.  Were any before/after counts conducted along that route? 


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#65 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:15 AM

Problem is cyclists still continue to use alternative routes despite cycling infrastructure. Sometimes the busiest traffic arteries are not topographically conducive to cycling but the powers that be plow forward with them anyways.

 

Should also mention that there is decent evidence that cyclists will shift routes by several KM to ride on good bikeways (trails, traffic-calmed streets, etc). Evidence for this comes from GPS studies on cyclists, as well as stated preference surveys.



#66 sebberry

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:23 AM

Should also mention that there is decent evidence that cyclists will shift routes by several KM to ride on good bikeways (trails, traffic-calmed streets, etc). Evidence for this comes from GPS studies on cyclists, as well as stated preference surveys.

 

Do they keep using those routes or do they slowly return to previous routes that are shorter and closer?


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#67 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:26 AM

Do they keep using those routes or do they slowly return to previous routes that are shorter and closer?

I have never seen any specific studies on that, but given that most of the major work on this has been done in places like Portland with long-established infrastructure and most bike riders have very strong preferences for good bikeways, I suspect that they don't.



#68 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:29 AM

Thanks Corey.

I'll speak from experience. When we had an office in Saanich I used to take the Goose then switch on to "Douglas" Street behind Saanich City Hall, ride up to the highway pedestrian overpass at Vanalman and cross there onto Glanford then onto Enterprise. Although this was the "safest" route I eventually got tired of the added distance and started taking surface streets. That saved me about 10 minutes of travel time in each direction despite being a slower route.

Eventually people go back to what is most sensible to them regardless of the infrastructure. Pandora remains an empty lane despite this being the peak cycling season.

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#69 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

Despite being a strong, confident bike rider, when I head to my grandmother's in Gordon Head from work I ride the Goose and Lochside because it is a much nicer ride and only about 10 minutes slower than Shelbourne.



#70 rjag

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:40 AM

Greetings from a sweltering London. Lots of bikes here, half no helmets, most are riding on main roads sharing with buses etc not much in the way of dedicated bike lanes but quite a few boxes at traffic lights to allow the bike to be in front.

There are stats out there that show % of riders from 10-15 years ago, I seem to remember seeing one that showed no increase in riders, but I'm sure that's either buried or most likely updated using john Lutons math (how many thousand bikes used the bridge every day as noted by councillor Luton?)

The above was tongue-in-cheek....surely the CRD has stats to share on this???

#71 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:43 AM

The two most reliable sources are the Census/NHS Journey to Work data and the CRD's Origin & Destination Surveys. Neither show much change at the regional level: https://www.crd.bc.c...ey.pdf?sfvrsn=0


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#72 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:52 AM

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume a maximum of 250 people cycle to work in the urban core year-round, rain or shine.

And even that is a high estimate, I'd say.

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#73 sebberry

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:54 AM

Thanks for that.

 

I really don't mind if we cater to cyclists, but to spend millions on infrastructure used by less than 3% of commuters seems really misplaced to me.  The big congestion problems are in and out of the city to west shore and Sidney and those are problems that can be alleviated by better transit.  Of course as soon as people move from their cars to busses more people will switch back to cars and fill the road to capacity, but I don't see gold-plated cycling infrastructure doing much to have a significant impact on cycling.

 

More concerning is that the numbers don't show an increase in cycling as a share of travel mode since 2001.  Out bike lane network has grown considerably since then, gas prices have risen considerably, parking is more expensive and harder to come by, the eco-movement has strengthened, environmental awareness has improved.... 

 

(And speed limits are going to shift people from bikes to cars?)


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#74 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

See it's a non-solution for thr real problem, but in the world of politics it's still a "solution" and far easier come by then figuring out how to manage congestion across multiple municipalities, and since politicians work in silos regional cooperation means some other politician might win out more media attention and that's unacceptable.
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#75 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:03 AM

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume a maximum of 250 people cycle to work in the urban core year-round, rain or shine.

And even that is a high estimate, I'd say.

 

600 biked across the Johnson St Bridge from 3 to 6pm on January 9th of this year (when it rained). Using standard traffic volume methods (10% of traffic will come at peak hour) that means that ~2700 people rode across the bridge that day.



#76 Nparker

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

...Pandora remains an empty lane despite this being the peak cycling season.

This has been my observation on many occasions as well.


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#77 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

600 biked across the Johnson St Bridge from 3 to 6pm on January 9th of this year (when it rained). Using standard traffic volume methods (10% of traffic will come at peak hour) that means that ~2700 people rode across the bridge that day.


That means between 3-6PM that day 3.3 cyclists rode across the bridge every minute?

That's incredibly hard to believe. I travel across the JSB everyday and have done so for years and in the thick of winter you're lucky to see a single bicycle on the way in.

Either that was one heck of a lucky day for stat collectors, the cycling lobby was out in force doing loop-d-loops or I've somehow become blind to bicycles.

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#78 Coreyburger

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:38 AM

That means between 3-6PM that day 3.3 cyclists rode across the bridge every minute?

That's incredibly hard to believe. I travel across the JSB everyday and have done so for years and in the thick of winter you're lucky to see a single bicycle on the way in.

Either that was one heck of a lucky day for stat collectors, the cycling lobby was out in force doing loop-d-loops or I've somehow become blind to bicycles.

 

January 2013 found basically the same amount (589).



#79 Mike K.

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:14 AM

So that's only in one direction or in both directions?

 

Can you explain further the 10% of travelers cross during the 3-6PM period and how the 2,700 cyclist count is, well, counted?


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#80 rjag

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

You can't extrapolate a number like that into a full day and claim an average of 2700 rode the bridge, I'll place money against that number. Is that based on the same type if data collection we read about 6 months ago that was collected by paid members of the cycling community?
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