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[Bicycles] Issues with bicycles and cyclists in Victoria


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#1521 Cassidy

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

A secure bike storage solution within a parkade is not a workable solution. That area would need to be monitored 24 hours a day to prevent mis-use and vandalism, and what would happen when a cyclist arrives and they encounter zero available stalls? Do they just leave their $3,000 bike on the street where they believe it'll be stolen by the time they finish lunch, or end their shift?

 

This is not an issue the City of Victoria wants to be plagued by.

Parkades are essentially monitored 24 hours a day already, and there isn't really any difference between coming downtown in your car and finding everything full, and coming downtown on your bike and finding everything full.

If you want guaranteed parking 24/7, you buy a monthly spot for your bike just as you would your car.

 

But most importantly, I'm not talking about "secure" parking as in a giant cage, I'm talking about individual bike lockers ... like the rest of the civilized world uses. (Google - "individual bike lockers").

 

This really isn't that difficult in any situation where folks actually follow up massive paradigm shifts with appropriate technology.

The COV's entire point is to trade cars in the downtown core for bikes/transit ... this just speaks to doing the job properly rather than in typical COV bogus fashion.

 

As for a "business case" ... is that some sort of joke?

Can you actually present a "business case" for $10 million dollars worth of bike lanes?

Thought not .... thus no need to present a business case for totally secure downtown bike parking.



#1522 marks_28

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:59 AM

A secure bike storage solution within a parkade is not a workable solution. That area would need to be monitored 24 hours a day to prevent mis-use and vandalism, and what would happen when a cyclist arrives and they encounter zero available stalls? Do they just leave their $3,000 bike on the street where they believe it'll be stolen by the time they finish lunch, or end their shift?

 

Could the CoV not do something like the Bike Parkades offered in Vancouver?

 

Park your bike and hop on transit!

Located at Main Street–Science World, King Edward, Commercial–Broadway, Joyce–Collingwood, Metrotown, and King George SkyTrain stations, Bike Parkades are indoor parking facilities where customers can lock up their bike for the day.

  • The glass-walled facilities are lit 24 hours per day and are equipped with video cameras.
  • Convenient access 7 days a week.
  • Only customers who enroll to use Bike Parkades can access the facilities.
  • It costs $1/day, with fees capped at $8/month.
  • Space is first-come, first-served.

 

If you put the closed off area near the front and in view of the attendant, and monitor with video cameras, and you could only get access with a key card once registered, that would be a good option for a lot of people. Charge a nominal fee of $8 a month and a deposit for the key card, and you could get a lot of take up. If your wallet ever goes missing, just call the city to have the card cancelled. Cap the number of people who have access, and allow some spots to be reserved for monthly pass users (maybe they pay a bit more?) and it wouldn't be too often that all the spots were full. 



#1523 Mike K.

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:59 AM

As for a "business case" ... is that some sort of joke?

Can you actually present a "business case" for $10 million dollars worth of bike lanes?

Thought not .... thus no need to present a business case for totally secure downtown bike parking.

 

A highway through town doesn't guarantee you a parking spot in front of your favourite restaurant, either.

 

I think you're just out of luck. It's all rollerblades for you, man.


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#1524 Ismo07

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:34 PM

Parkades are essentially monitored 24 hours a day already, and there isn't really any difference between coming downtown in your car and finding everything full, and coming downtown on your bike and finding everything full.

If you want guaranteed parking 24/7, you buy a monthly spot for your bike just as you would your car.

 

But most importantly, I'm not talking about "secure" parking as in a giant cage, I'm talking about individual bike lockers ... like the rest of the civilized world uses. (Google - "individual bike lockers").

 

This really isn't that difficult in any situation where folks actually follow up massive paradigm shifts with appropriate technology.

The COV's entire point is to trade cars in the downtown core for bikes/transit ... this just speaks to doing the job properly rather than in typical COV bogus fashion.

 

As for a "business case" ... is that some sort of joke?

Can you actually present a "business case" for $10 million dollars worth of bike lanes?

Thought not .... thus no need to present a business case for totally secure downtown bike parking.

 

Hey Cassidy,

 

How far would you walk once you have parked your e-bike?  Serious question, I am working on a pilot but need to understand that.  My feeling right now is that we wouldn't want to have 1 or 2 larger facilities but rather 7-10 smaller locations for something like that as most cyclists won't bike to a location out of their way just to walk back.  I mean as the 'royal' we by the way.  There does have to be a business case, and there was one for the bike lanes.

 

I do not think the intent is to trade cars for bikes as a 1 for 1 but that cars were simply going to increase as populations continued to grow in the region.  The intent is to find ways to reduce the single occupancy vehicle from that commute.  If it can be done with public transit, car pooling, increased cycling etc. that increase in vehicles might be lessened. 

 

So where would a secure bicycle location need to be?  Real location, as in area, rather than just telling me a 5 minute walk.



#1525 Jackerbie

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:04 PM

So where would a secure bicycle location need to be?  Real location, as in area, rather than just telling me a 5 minute walk.

 

A great place to start: that dark vaulted area at City Hall at the end of Broad Street. A bright, glassed in enclosure against the wall and taking up maybe two of the arches could be a good location, provided that it is closely monitored. An even larger facility could be considered if access through to Centennial Square is not a concern.

 

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#1526 Mike K.

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:13 PM

I suspect the issue with that location is the space can only accommodate a few dozen stalls, and the optics of situating it there (easy access for City Hall staff) would make for a touchy public relations situation.

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#1527 Mike K.

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:15 PM

Hw many bicycles actually enter the downtown core between 7AM and 6PM?

And how many of them are in need of secure parking stalls?

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#1528 Cassidy

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

So where would a secure bicycle location need to be? 

The downtown core is (for arguments sake) around 8 X 10 full city blocks in total ... 12 X 16 blocks if you want to count the outskirts of the core.

It's probably fair to look at parkades and duplicate that with a bicycle lock up location.

 

There are city parkades every 4 or so full city blocks, and that narrows down quite a bit when you look at private parkades.

But for bikes, it's perhaps fair to say folks might have to expect to walk 4 or 5 full city blocks to get where they're ultimately going.

 

As for various Municipal and Government employees (and converting that dead space under COV chambers), I suspect various levels of government employees may be well taken care of. For example, the CRD building has not only a fully secure chain link lock up, but that lock up is located in the basement parkade, which is only accessible by swipe card. So that's a swipe card and a key ... but a free and secure place to lock up your bike.

I don't know if the COV duplicates that, but certainly many levels of government take their own employees bicycle parking far more seriously than they take the general publics need for the same secure bike parking.

 

***EDIT*** and having just paid my property taxes, I would note that I (and the rest of you) definitely paid for that free, very secure CRD employee bicycle parking.


Edited by Cassidy, 04 June 2019 - 04:48 PM.


#1529 Mike K.

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:38 PM

Have you purchased a bicycle yet?


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#1530 FogPub

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:56 PM

There are city parkades every 4 or so full city blocks, and that narrows down quite a bit when you look at private parkades.

But for bikes, it's perhaps fair to say folks might have to expect to walk 4 or 5 full city blocks to get where they're ultimately going.

 

If I'm biking (on an actual bike rather than a quasi-moped like some of you seem to be talking about) I'm going door to door, otherwise what's the point - might as well take the car.



#1531 Matt R.

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:57 AM

I biked for *years* from Tillicum to the OBM, most any weather, without problems. What’s changed?

Matt.

#1532 GaryOak

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:26 AM

Here's a link to a site with many different types of bike lockups/storage solutions
https://cyclesafe.co...ing-dimensions/

#1533 Cassidy

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:14 AM

Have you purchased a bicycle yet?

Yes, I grabbed a RadCity before they ran out of them (again).

 

But from what other electric bike owners have told me, most electrics won't last 15 minutes locked to a bike rack in downtown Victoria.

They also tell me that, in the absence of a secure lock-up, you have to carry the 7 pound battery with you wherever you go, as leaving it on the bike will pretty much ensure it's stolen within 5 minutes.

 

So unfortunately, and despite my original intent to get healthy by riding to work, the bike is currently a recreational endeavour on the Goose until such time as I'm able to be confident in the downtown lock-up situation.

It's not the most expensive bike out there by far, but I'm in no frame of mind to get a $2000.00 bike intentionally stolen when I know full well the downtown core is a hotbed of 24/7 bicycle theft.

 

(It's to the point now where the bike thieves think nothing of sticking the stolen bike up on a planter in Centennial Square and surrounds and stripping it down to the frame in front of passerby's, a mechanical endeavour that I see daily).


Edited by Cassidy, 05 June 2019 - 06:19 AM.

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#1534 nagel

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:34 AM

Yes, I grabbed a RadCity before they ran out of them (again).

But from what other electric bike owners have told me, most electrics won't last 15 minutes locked to a bike rack in downtown Victoria.
They also tell me that, in the absence of a secure lock-up, you have to carry the 7 pound battery with you wherever you go, as leaving it on the bike will pretty much ensure it's stolen within 5 minutes.

So unfortunately, and despite my original intent to get healthy by riding to work, the bike is currently a recreational endeavour on the Goose until such time as I'm able to be confident in the downtown lock-up situation.
It's not the most expensive bike out there by far, but I'm in no frame of mind to get a $2000.00 bike intentionally stolen when I know full well the downtown core is a hotbed of 24/7 bicycle theft.

(It's to the point now where the bike thieves think nothing of sticking the stolen bike up on a planter in Centennial Square and surrounds and stripping it down to the frame in front of passerby's, a mechanical endeavour that I see daily).


I’m going to briefly come out of exile to disagree with this post. I’ve had an electric cargo bike now for 4 years and have parked it downtown probably hundreds of times in public without incident. Would I park it by pandora and Quadra, centennial square or by 844 Johnson? No, I’m not an idiot. But it is perfectly safe to park it on LoJo, busy sections of fort, by the library, and most of government to name a few good safe spots.

You need high traffic high vis spots, and a solid U lock. I have never heard of an angle grinder bike theft in Victoria so you should be safe with a thick U lock. Also obviously strip the bike down and take the bike computer too. If you’re going to be more than 30 min consider looping all the wheels with a thick cable too. I got one on amazon that’s Kryptonite for like $40. Also most home insurers will let you double the max coverage on certain items without too much fuss, so you can get $2K covered.

It’s not perfect by any means but I will say the number of trips I and my wife have foregone due to concerns of theft are fairly minimal. Probably 20 or so.
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#1535 nagel

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:35 AM

One more thing. You can significantly decrease the attractiveness of stealing your specific bike by taking the battery with you after lockup. A heavy e bike with no battery is essentially useless.

#1536 RFS

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:38 AM

A family member recently got on his bike after having lunch and began to ride home when he realized, while in traffic, that he had no brakes. Someone had attempted to disconnect the tires and had left it half done. Extremely dangerous and could have ended badly.

#1537 lanforod

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:35 AM

A family member recently got on his bike after having lunch and began to ride home when he realized, while in traffic, that he had no brakes. Someone had attempted to disconnect the tires and had left it half done. Extremely dangerous and could have ended badly.

 

Even more than a car, a pre-ride inspection is very important. Check your tires and spokes every time, and that's a good time to glance over the brakes.



#1538 jonny

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:45 AM

I’m going to briefly come out of exile to disagree with this post.

 

Don't be in exile. Be in return. 



#1539 tedward

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:22 AM

You really don't understand the difference between a $200 bike a la Europe and a $2000 or $5000 road or electric bike like we are talking about here?

 

Actually no, I had no idea there was such a difference. 

So, here in Victoria (Canada in general?) we spend way too much money on bikes, which then are more valuable to thieves and require vaults to protect them?

More cops on the streets (on foot or on bikes) would seem to me to be a better answer than publicly-funded secure bike parking.

 

 

LOL, that's entirely the issue.  Do you think that locked bikes on the street aren't being stolen?  Do you think that other places in the world don't also have bike theft problems?

 

Of course they get stolen. The point is that they still use open-air bike racks and don't appear to see a need for expensive, space-intensive, secure bike parking.

I wanted someone to explain why we are so different from a place like Amsterdam. lanforod has provided one possible explanation and perhaps there is more, but simply repeating that there are bike thefts is not a convincing argument for government subsidized vaults for your bike as the ONLY solution.


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#1540 rmpeers

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:32 AM

Actually no, I had no idea there was such a difference.

So, here in Victoria (Canada in general?) we spend way too much money on bikes, which then are more valuable to thieves and require vaults to protect them?

More cops on the streets (on foot or on bikes) would seem to me to be a better answer than publicly-funded secure bike parking.



Of course they get stolen. The point is that they still use open-air bike racks and don't appear to see a need for expensive, space-intensive, secure bike parking.

I wanted someone to explain why we are so different from a place like Amsterdam. lanforod has provided one possible explanation and perhaps there is more, but simply repeating that there are bike thefts is not a convincing argument for government subsidized vaults for your bike as the ONLY solution.


More cops?? But we are already over-policed and the uniforms are too scary. :)
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