2302 replies to this topic

[DustMagnet]

I'm not a pedant though, so rather than try to demonstrate my cleverness and parse out every last possible meaning of any given word or phrase ... I simply said what I meant (and you very clearly understood me).

 

[marks_28]

Thanks for demonstrating my point perfectly in terms of cyclists and their opinion of the laws that apply to them.

 

So you'd rather a cyclist bike on an arterial road with no bike lane, putting themselves in danger rather than riding on an empty sidewalk where they are out of the way of traffic and much safer? Just because of rules that were designed with automobiles in mind and very little consideration to cyclists? 

[Cassidy]

So you'd rather a cyclist bike on an arterial road with no bike lane, putting themselves in danger rather than riding on an empty sidewalk where they are out of the way of traffic and much safer? Just because of rules that were designed with automobiles in mind and very little consideration to cyclists? 

Your point is moot.

Not "liking" a law isn't an excuse for breaking it.

 

It is against the law in British Columbia to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk unless their is specific signage allowing cyclists to do so.

If cyclists don't like the law, then there are legal avenues to go about trying to get it changed.

 

Breaking the law simply because you think you've got a better idea really isn't on in a civilized society.

[Victoria Watcher]

i’ll go as far as saying almost all commuter riders break the law daily. rolling “stops” at lights and stop signs and going through or not stopping at pedestrian occupied crosswalks are the normal violations most commuter cyclists commit every single day.

[shoeflack]

i’ll go as far as saying almost all commuter riders break the law daily. rolling “stops” at lights and stop signs and going through or not stopping at pedestrian occupied crosswalks are the normal violations most commuter cyclists commit every single day.

 

You could just say commuters in general and this would hold true. Vehicles do these same things, and pedestrians jaywalk or walk on red all the time. People tend to skirt driving/cycling/walking laws frequently when they are inconvenienced by following them.

[jonny]

Your point is moot.

Not "liking" a law isn't an excuse for breaking it.

 

Have you ever jay walked? Had a beer at the beach? Driven 1 km/h over the speed limit? Started crossing the street after the orange hand started flashing? Parked in a loading zone because you had a quick errand to run? 

[Cassidy]

Have you ever jay walked? Had a beer at the beach? Driven 1 km/h over the speed limit? Started crossing the street after the orange hand started flashing? Parked in a loading zone because you had a quick errand to run? 

Sorry Bruh ... I don't do straw man arguments.

[FogPub]

So you'd rather a cyclist bike on an arterial road with no bike lane, putting themselves in danger rather than riding on an empty sidewalk where they are out of the way of traffic and much safer? Just because of rules that were designed with automobiles in mind and very little consideration to cyclists? 

Let's be honest, other than the very core of downtown there's not many arterial roads left that don't have bike lanes; never mind there's quite often an alternate option e.g. a parallel side street that works far better for bikes than cars - sometimes because it was designed that way!

 

And by the way, regarding jaywalking: I seem to recall the jaywalking law got taken off the books in the CoV quite some years ago.

[shoeflack]

And by the way, regarding jaywalking: I seem to recall the jaywalking law got taken off the books in the CoV quite some years ago.

 

Jaywalking is still mentioned in the CoV Streets and Traffic Bylaw (Part 2, Section 10). Also there was this campaign by VicPD last year.

[jonny]

Sorry Bruh ... I don't do straw man arguments.

 

You're being obtuse about petty misdemeanor bicycling "crimes". It's not a straw man, dawg. Have you ever broken the law? It's a valid question. 

[Victoria Watcher]

You could just say commuters in general and this would hold true. Vehicles do these same things, and pedestrians jaywalk or walk on red all the time. People tend to skirt driving/cycling/walking laws frequently when they are inconvenienced by following them.

 

this is true.

[Brantastic]

Let's be honest, other than the very core of downtown there's not many arterial roads left that don't have bike lanes; never mind there's quite often an alternate option e.g. a parallel side street that works far better for bikes than cars - sometimes because it was designed that way!

 

And by the way, regarding jaywalking: I seem to recall the jaywalking law got taken off the books in the CoV quite some years ago.

Try Mckenzie (west of Borden), Quadra, Cook, Hillside, half of Gorge, Burnside, half of Tillicum, most of Glanford, Carey, currently Shelbourne, Oak Bay Ave, most of Cedar Hill, most of Foul Bay south of Fort, Richmond, Cedar Hill X, Fairfield, Lampson. Some of these aren't too bad to bike on (like Fairfield), and some of these have parallel alternatives as you mention (Glanford has Bremerton, Cook has Vancouver for part of it, etc.) but most of these don't have alternatives that aren't circuitous). 

[Cats4Hire]

Try Mckenzie (west of Borden), Quadra, Cook, Hillside, half of Gorge, Burnside, half of Tillicum, most of Glanford, Carey, currently Shelbourne, Oak Bay Ave, most of Cedar Hill, most of Foul Bay south of Fort, Richmond, Cedar Hill X, Fairfield, Lampson. Some of these aren't too bad to bike on (like Fairfield), and some of these have parallel alternatives as you mention (Glanford has Bremerton, Cook has Vancouver for part of it, etc.) but most of these don't have alternatives that aren't circuitous). 

Glanford is honestly the weirdest. Carey from Uptown has bike lanes then they continue on Glanford until just past Mackenzie, start again in front of Canada Post, end at Enterprise, start at the other end of Enterprise, go through to the end of Glanford. That section between the two ends of Enterprise has enough room so I'm not sure why there's no lanes there. The rest I guess is kind of narrow. 

[DustMagnet]

Have you ever jay walked? Had a beer at the beach? Driven 1 km/h over the speed limit? Started crossing the street after the orange hand started flashing? Parked in a loading zone because you had a quick errand to run? 

 

 

You're being obtuse about petty misdemeanor bicycling "crimes". It's not a straw man, dawg. Have you ever broken the law? It's a valid question. 

 

It's a valid question, but what bearing does it have on the subject?

It doesn't matter what laws Cassidy has or has not broken, you still aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk unless explicitly permitted.

[marks_28]

Your point is moot.

Not "liking" a law isn't an excuse for breaking it.

 

It is against the law in British Columbia to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk unless their is specific signage allowing cyclists to do so.

If cyclists don't like the law, then there are legal avenues to go about trying to get it changed.

 

Breaking the law simply because you think you've got a better idea really isn't on in a civilized society.

 

Cyclists aren't breaking the law just because they think there is a better idea, but rather because their life is in danger if they don't. Would you rather a cyclist get severely injured or die rather than them following the exact letter of the law? It is called the Motor Vehicle Act for a reason - it was designed with the automobile front of mind. 

 

Some laws are beginning the change, and more will continue to do so as urban planners realize roadways need to be designed with the safety of all user groups in mind. If we don't want cyclists on the sidewalks, there needs to be better infrastructure to keep them safe.

[Cassidy]

Jaywalking is still mentioned in the CoV Streets and Traffic Bylaw (Part 2, Section 10). Also there was this campaign by VicPD last year.

Just guessing, but FogPub was likely recalling the giant screw up made by VicPD when they started ghosting the sidewalks around Government Street and handing out jaywalking tickets to anybody crossing Government outside of a crosswalk.

It was a honeypot for VicPD of course ... at least until they found out that the COV had by-laws in place that specifically allowed the portion of Government Street between Yates and Fort to be used 24/7/365 as a pedestrian crossing at any point.

 

It resulted in one of the biggest "egg on the face" affairs for VicPD that I can recall, and also required the very public cancelling of many hundreds of jaywalking tickets.

Short story is that VicPD didn't know the COV's by-laws in enough detail as it related to jaywalking in "congested" areas downtown.

 

You linked to it yourself.

Section 2 - 10 - 3 (b)

https://www.victoria...ylaw-09-079.pdf

(although I think  the COV has expanded that in policy to include more of Gov't St. than just that couple of blocks).

Edited by Cassidy, 23 July 2019 - 06:00 PM.

[jonny]

It's a valid question, but what bearing does it have on the subject?

It doesn't matter what laws Cassidy has or has not broken, you still aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalk unless explicitly permitted.

When somebody goes on and on for literally years about incredibly minor laws that cyclists break (like riding on the sidewalk...lol) they better have an absolutely squeaky clean record. I don’t even want to hear about a single parking ticket or an instance where their car tire went over a solid white line.

[FogPub]

Try Mckenzie (west of Borden), Quadra, Cook, Hillside, half of Gorge, Burnside, half of Tillicum, most of Glanford, Carey, currently Shelbourne, Oak Bay Ave, most of Cedar Hill, most of Foul Bay south of Fort, Richmond, Cedar Hill X, Fairfield, Lampson. Some of these aren't too bad to bike on (like Fairfield), and some of these have parallel alternatives as you mention (Glanford has Bremerton, Cook has Vancouver for part of it, etc.) but most of these don't have alternatives that aren't circuitous). 

Some of those (e.g. Oak Bay Ave, Cedar Hill X east of the road up Mt Tolmie, parts of Fairfield) are wide enough that there's room for everyone, no problem.

 

Some others are a headache, to be sure: Richmond, Shelbourne (each of which would otherwise be the alternate route for the other), Hillside (though Bay St is a bike-laned alternative for the eastern part), etc.  Can't speak to Lampson as I don't remember the last time I was out that way.

[jonny]

I took my dog to a school field this morning to run off leash. There's a little school district sign that says all dogs must be kept on leash. Oops.

 

I also started crossing the street after the orange hand started flashing and cut the corner a bit. I hope nobody lets CSIS know. 

[sebberry]

I hope nobody lets CSIS know. 

 

They were already watching you do it.