76 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Well, with the number of homeless folks around these parts it would seem a waste of resources and a misplacement of priorities.

So the room occupancy rate in Victoria hotels is only 30 or 40% at some times of year (the cold months). Should we place the homeless in those spare rooms?

[aastra]

...with the number of homeless folks around these parts it would seem a waste of resources and a misplacement of priorities.

I really don't understand what this means. The number of unused rooms in private homes in Victoria would absolutely dwarf the number of unused condo units. Do those thousands of rooms represent misplaced priorities? Were/are those rooms a waste of resources? Should those rooms be used to house the homeless?

If my neighbours have new cars that they rarely use while I'm hoofing it everywhere, can I really complain that their cars represent misplaced priorities and a waste of resources? I don't get this angle at all.

We're talking about private-sector condo buildings here. It's not as if there's a shortage of bricks or workers or windows or whatever else because a few new condo buildings have taken them all. If anyone has an inclination to build a homeless shelter they can go right ahead and build one at any time (and they certainly shouldn't worry that new condo buildings on valuable properties in places like Coal Harbour or the Songhees are eating away at the number of potential sites for new shelters... it just ain't so).

[eseedhouse]

So the room occupancy rate in Victoria hotels is only 30 or 40% at some times of year (the cold months). Should we place the homeless in those spare rooms?

I never said we should of course, so you are putting words in my mouth. As a matter of fact I wouldn't favour that.

However the energy and skill that went into building vacant units could have gone in to building units more suitable for the homeless population. A case where the market is clearly not as efficient as it could be.

And please don't take this as screed against markets, which in fact I rather favour. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that markets are no perfect.

[Mike K.]

Do we have stats on the number of completed and under construction residential units within the downtown core (not including Harris Green, North Park, etc.) in 2013? I think the last time I checked we were still at half, give or take, of the total units in downtown Victoria of the 1970's.

[pherthyl]

Do we have stats on the number of completed and under construction residential units within the downtown core (not including Harris Green, North Park, etc.) in 2013? I think the last time I checked we were still at half, give or take, of the total units in downtown Victoria of the 1970's.

I'm not aware of stats for Victoria core. This is for the Victoria CMA.
Apartment/condo units under construction as of Feb 2013: 1090
Apartment/condo starts in Jan/Feb: 55+72=127
Apartment/condo completions in Jan/Feb: 138+25=163

[Mike K.]

Sorry, I meant total homes in the downtown core up to and including residential units under construction in 2013. I seem to recall at its peak downtown Victoria contained some 1,500 residences circa 1970 (not including Harris Green or adjacent hoods).

[jonny]

Depending on your definitions, I guess the number would vary.

I believe all of the major projects that are under construction in the City of Victoria and their number of units are:

93 Mondrian
36 Sovereign
157 Era
133 Union
120 Mews
177 Promontory
38 200 Douglas
90 Duet
844 Total

Though I suppose downtown proper excludes Promontory, 200 Douglas and Duet, which reduces that number to 539 for buildings under construction which are strictly downtown. Promontory and Duet are awful close to downtown though.

Edit: is Harris Green not considered downtown?

[D.L.]

If downtown proper did indeed contain 1500 residential units in 1970, I think many of them would have been sub-standard, like in old hotels turned into rooming houses. I don't think 1970 would have been the golden age of downtown living.

[Mike K.]

Some impressive figures for our local condo market.

Downtown Victoria rising: 900 condos and apartments under construction with 3,600 planned
By Mike Kozakowski, VibrantVictoria.ca
http://vibrantvictor...h-3600-planned/

Nearly 900 condominium and rental units are currently under construction throughout downtown Victoria and peripheral neighbourhoods within the City of Victoria (not including construction activity in 12 other municipalities that comprise the Greater Victoria metropolitan region).

Currently the most voluminous project underway with 177 units is Bosa Properties’ 21-storey Promontory condo tower in Vic West that will also become Victoria’s tallest building. Runner up is Concert Properties’ 15-storey 157 unit Era condo tower rising in the central business district on Yates Street. In Chinatown spanning a property between Pandora Avenue and Fisgard Street is Anthem Properties’ five storey Union lowrise comprised of 133 condo units split between two buildings. Further east along Fisgard Street Townline’s 12-storey The Hudson Mews tower will introduce 120 all-rental units. And the most recent start-up is James Bay’s two-building, eight and four storey Duet by Chard Development comprised of 90 condo units which itself is a stone’s throw from the Q Apartments renovation, also in James Bay, that will potentially result in as many as 100 rental units. A number of smaller projects combined add up to over 200 additional homes. [Read more]

[pherthyl]

Some impressive figures for our local condo market.

Impressive... Perhaps.
I find it interesting that in a depressed condo market developers are building at boom time levels.

[Mike K.]

It is rather interesting but it's also a major opportunity for buyers. Buying a condo as a pre-sale has its risks but when you can see the finished product and shop around you're likely to settle on something that fits your exact needs and budget, no to mention moving in days after purchasing the unit.

And given the sharp competition developers will likely be much more willing to negotiate and/or agree to perks. For the buyer this really is shaping up to be a perfect time to be in the market for a downtown condo.

[jonny]

I wonder if the Victoria condo market is in a virtuous cycle. As derelict lots and uninspiring properties get redeveloped it makes downtown more appealing to all types of people, including potential residents. As more residents live downtown, its drawbacks get cleaned up and the perceptions that downtown is a dirty dangerous place full of addicts change. As downtown gets cleaned up, more people consider living there and more buildings are constructed. It seems like downtown Victoria is becoming more and more 'the place to be' for all types of people.

I'd be interested to see the net increase of downtown homes since 2004 when I first moved here. I'm sure the number would surprise many, and I wouldn't be shocked to see it lie somewhere around 2,500 homes.

[gumgum]

^I sure would like to know how much the population has grown in the last ten years and how much we know it will grow within the next 5 d/t.

[aastra]

If we accept Statistics Canada's numbers:

***

Census Tract 9350010
(roughly corresponding to downtown Victoria & North Park):

2006:
Population: 7,001
Private dwellings: 4,546

2011:
Population: 7,971
Private dwellings: 5,747

***

Census Tract 9350011
(Vic West)

2006:
Population: 6,023
Private dwellings: 3,455

2011:
Population: 6,806
Private dwellings: 4,192

***

The city proper's total population increased by 1,960 from 2006-2011.

[gumgum]

Too slow.

[Mike K.]

I wonder if the Victoria condo market is in a virtuous cycle. As derelict lots and uninspiring properties get redeveloped it makes downtown more appealing to all types of people, including potential residents. As more residents live downtown, its drawbacks get cleaned up and the perceptions that downtown is a dirty dangerous place full of addicts change. As downtown gets cleaned up, more people consider living there and more buildings are constructed. It seems like downtown Victoria is becoming more and more 'the place to be' for all types of people.

I'd be interested to see the net increase of downtown homes since 2004 when I first moved here. I'm sure the number would surprise many, and I wouldn't be shocked to see it lie somewhere around 2,500 homes.

According to our stats on VV and SkyscraperPage, 1,368 homes were built from approximately that period (2006-2013) strictly within the downtown Victoria and Harris Green areas. These stats do not include heritage restorations nor all 3 to 4-storey structures (Palladian and the one behind it the name of which I can't remember, and there must be a few more but I did include The Urban, 601 Herald and SoMa) which would easily add another 100 to 150 units.

So to see approximately 450 downtown/Harris Green units (550 if you include the Q Apartments) currently underway represents a massive 30-40% increase in residences. If you think about it, what has been accomplished over a period of about seven years will be accomplished in just two years (2013-2014) and for this market that's quite the condo boom.

[jonny]

Thanks for the stats guys.

So almost all of the CoV's recent population growth has been downtown and we are currently witnessing a substantial boom in the number of homes being constructed in Victoria. A 13% population growth rate downtown between 2006 and 2011 isn't massive, but it is noteworthy and points in the right direction for sure. It certainly indicates that not all of these new condos are sitting there empty as is brought up often when talking about proposed developments.