3308 replies to this topic

[LJ]

A lot of cruise ships use natural gas or hydrogen for their power generators, I think a combination of those with a couple of electric shore power hookups would take care of the problem. Mandate by 2025 no ship can enter port using diesel generators for their power, if you got the cruise ship industry on board with this it would happen. They are required to go into dry dock for refurbishing every 3 years so over a period of 6 years I think you could get most of the fleet changed over.

[Nparker]

...Mandate by 2025 no ship can enter port using diesel generators for their power..so over a period of 6 years I think you could get most of the fleet changed over.

Also gives the industry 6 years to find alternative ports to satisfy the Jones Act regulations.

[RFS]

Anyone who works or even walks through downtown in cruise ship season can tell how important the ships are to Victoria's economy. I'd say in a big way the cruise ships cover up a lot of the bad decisions the city has made in recent years.

'Victoria city council has passed a controversial cruise ship motion proposed by Mayor Lisa Helps and two councilors that would limit the number of cruise ships allowed to dock in the city each year, and prevent any long term contracts from being signed'

https://vancouverisl...otion-1.4643767

'According to GVHA CEO Ian Robertson, the local cruise industry is concerned about the rippling effects of the motion, which could make Victoria a less appealing port for cruise ships.

“We need an approach that aligns everyone behind common goals of mitigating and reducing environmental impacts while ensuring that the 800 indirect and direct jobs and the more than $130 million in economic impact are also prioritized and protected,” said Robertson in a statement Wednesday.'

'Ben Isitt said that he'd prefer to see even fewer cruise ships come to the island, saying "there are no jobs on a dead planet."'

Once again isitt shows what an out of touch elitist he is

[Nparker]

Comrade Isitt did suggest that workers displaced from a reduction in cruise ship visits could be given a "state pension".

[rmpeers]

Comrade Isitt did suggest that workers displaced from a reduction in cruise ship visits could be given a "state pension".

Ha. Sneak preview of life under Mayor Ben post-2022.

[Victoria Watcher]

maybe before they fill it with sewage bc hydro should sling a hydro line through that brand new harbour pipe from the electrical substation in esquimalt to james bay.   

 

 

 

Neither the harbour authority nor B.C. Hydro could put a dollar figure on the cost of shore power at Ogden Point, although a 2012 study suggested one onshore connection would cost $13 million. That estimate is now deemed to be out of date.

 

Olynyk said it’s not as big a project as some might think. A new feeder, or distribution line, either underground or undersea, would be required and would come from either the Esquimalt substation or Horsey substation near Mayfair shopping centre. A new substation in James Bay, where Ogden Point is located, is likely not required.

 

 

https://www.timescol...ydro-1.23980658

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 18 October 2019 - 07:21 AM.

[Nparker]

Comrade Isitt did suggest that workers displaced from a reduction in cruise ship visits could be given a "state pension".

This poor excuse for a human being makes my blood boil. 

...Isitt said he favoured a motion signalling that the cruise-ship industry “should be wound down until such time as it has a sustainable power source and other impacts are managed.”...I would rather put workers who rely on those kinds of jobs on a state pension to at least mitigate the harm that’s happening to the atmosphere...

https://www.timescol...port-1.23980687

Sure, reduce revenue to CoV businesses (and taxes to city coffers) from the loss of cruise ships AND give the displaced workers a "state pension". There's always more money to be drained from the local taxpayer (except from renters of course who must have their costs capped).

[aastra]

I suppose that's why he's such an advocate of increased density, building on surface parking lots, etc. Not just because he's a dedicated environmentalist, not just because he loves Victoria and cares about it, but because he understands how critical residential density is re: growing the tax base.

[aastra]

Unless I'm misinformed about some of those things.

[Mattjvd]

That seems relatively inexpensive to put shore power in. I'm sure some of the costs would be recouped by selling the power to the ships. Not sure how much they could charge, but as longs as it's less than the cost of running the ships' engines it would work.

[Sparky]

^ It may be expensive if the current hydro service to the neighbourhood needs upgrading to handle the additional load that the cruise ships will draw.

 

Here is a little information on Vancouver's initiative. 

 

https://www.portvanc...ne/shore-power/

[Victoria Watcher]

^ It may be expensive if the current hydro service to the neighbourhood needs upgrading to handle the additional load that the cruise ships will draw.

 

Here is a little information on Vancouver's initiative. 

 

https://www.portvanc...ne/shore-power/

 

Neither the harbour authority nor B.C. Hydro could put a dollar figure on the cost of shore power at Ogden Point, although a 2012 study suggested one onshore connection would cost $13 million. That estimate is now deemed to be out of date.

 

Olynyk said it’s not as big a project as some might think. A new feeder, or distribution line, either underground or undersea, would be required and would come from either the Esquimalt substation or Horsey substation near Mayfair shopping centre. A new substation in James Bay, where Ogden Point is located, is likely not required.

[Victoria Watcher]

Victoria city council agreed Thursday to investigate its legal authority to regulate waste and emissions from cruise ships while they’re in port.

 

Councillors approved a motion, authored by Mayor Lisa Helps, that directs staff to report back on whether the city can require cruise ships to plug into shore power by a certain date rather than idling in port.

In addition, councillors agreed to ask the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority to put a cap on cruise visits and refrain from signing long-term contracts until the shore-power issue is “dealt with” to council’s satisfaction.

 

Helps appeared to soften her position on that recommendation Thursday, after businesses raised concerns about its impact on their bottom line.

 

The mayor told the committee of the whole that the recommendation “doesn’t propose that the cruise-ship industry can’t expand until there’s shore power.” She said it could simply mean there has to be a business case for shore power or funding for shore power before expansion can proceed.

 

But that differs from what Helps said last week when she told the Times Colonist: “Specifically what we’re asking the GVHA to do is not sign any long-term contracts, not increase the number of ships and not consider home porting until shore power is installed.”

Coun. Geoff Young, who voted against the motion, criticized its vague wording, calling it a “most unfortunate” document.

“It’s almost as if this motion is worded in a way to do the most harm to the industry for the least benefit,” he said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...port-1.23980687

[Sparky]

Politics before reason.

Priceless.

[Mike K.]

Hey, now the politicians can claim they took on the industry.

[Stephen James]

i'm not sure i'm taking tourism victoria right at face value here if that's what they said.  you mean butchart gardens and wilson's have been put in some type of stress over a silly motion by the mayor?  i think it' might not be so serious.

Tourism Victoria struggles with credibility.  I helped fundraise for Symphony Splash and their response was selfishly laughable... that Symphony Splash adds nothing to the tourism experience and their hotels and services would be just as successful otherwise.  (Have you ever walked around during Symphony Splash?)  This is their standard response when asked to contribute to almost anything in Victoria and worth repeating when they say that we should pay for this with public funds.  Too successful to care but as soon as $ comes up...?  Give me a break.

 

I'm from industry.  The priorities are different from those of the community and to think otherwise is naive.  The cruise industry will:

1) not do anything until they are forced to do it

2) will try to get anyone but themselves to pay for it

 

I'm no fan of this embarrassing council but this is straightforward and long overdue.  The fact the community has to bring it up (how many times have you heard Robertson volunteer the subject, lol) is evidence enough that this will not be cooperative unless I pay for it (along with all the rest of us.)  The meeting with Robertson is window-dressing/delay the the city knows it; this is not a new issue and people, including myself, are fed up.   Cruise ships will absolutely retrofit shore power just as soon as they run out of places to park and, as usual, we're going to timidly follow many other jurisdictions and, at the same time, claim we're at the pointy end of progressive policy.  

For goodness sake, are we this naive?

[Stephen James]

 

Neither the harbour authority nor B.C. Hydro could put a dollar figure on the cost of shore power at Ogden Point, although a 2012 study suggested one onshore connection would cost $13 million. That estimate is now deemed to be out of date.

 

Olynyk said it’s not as big a project as some might think. A new feeder, or distribution line, either underground or undersea, would be required and would come from either the Esquimalt substation or Horsey substation near Mayfair shopping centre. A new substation in James Bay, where Ogden Point is located, is likely not required.

 

Hydro has made it perfectly clear there's plenty of power available - they'd be happy to have the customers.  NO, I should not have to offer my tax money for this industry to do what it should have done over a decade ago.  They look pretty profitable.  (See Carnival's public books.)

[Stephen James]

https://www.cruzely....er-infographic/

"All told, after factoring in all expenses, Carnival — across all its brands around the world — saw net income of $2.8 billion in 2016. That comes out to $241 of profit per passenger, or about 17% of every dollar spent with the cruise line...Some of the most surprising figures? On more than $16 billion in revenue (and nearly $3 billion in profits), the cruise line paid only $49 million in net income tax expenses. As well, it pulls in a profit margin of about 17%."

 

btw, as a former equity researcher, 17% margin is outstanding!  We should help them as much as possible with my tax money...?

[Stephen James]

A lot of cruise ships use natural gas or hydrogen for their power generators, I think a combination of those with a couple of electric shore power hookups would take care of the problem. Mandate by 2025 no ship can enter port using diesel generators for their power, if you got the cruise ship industry on board with this it would happen. They are required to go into dry dock for refurbishing every 3 years so over a period of 6 years I think you could get most of the fleet changed over.

I think 2025 is an unreasonable gift to the cruise industry - see the profit references (any profit references from any cruise company.)  

A cursory review of cruise industry headlines make it clear this business has a bad reputation with respect to the environment.  The idea that forcing the cruise industry to meet a decade old standard will put their businesses at risk, or do permanent harm to our economy is fear-mongering.  We will get a lot of this if the city forces this reasonable rule - this industry is expert at tactics to serve it's interests.  Get ready for the lobbying and bullshit from the cruise industry association and the GVHA, who are more advocates for industry than representatives of our public interests.

[Mike K.]

With new cruise ships priced in the $1.5 billion range their incomes must take into account the costs of their fleets.