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[Marine] Victoria cruise ship industry | Breakwater District/Ogden Point | News / issues


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#2721 Mike K.

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 07:32 AM

The entire industry will be revolutionized with the lifting of the mandatory Canadian stop. Will Victoria be seen as a must-see stop? Some cruises will offer it, but many won't. We will also face competition for Canadian stops from Nanaimo and Campbell River.


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#2722 Barrrister

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 09:15 AM

The problem for a Canadian stop is that people need a passport and at the moment a covid test, Neither is a big seller for American tourists. People go to see Alaska not shop at the Bay. 



#2723 Nparker

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 09:40 AM

Almost everyone on a cruise ship will have a passport with them and all will have had to have a negative COVID test to board.



#2724 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 10:44 AM

2021:

 

https://today.yougov...lid-us-passport

 

 

 



#2725 Barrrister

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 12:45 PM

Nparker, if travelling from Seattle to Alaska (without stopping in Canada why would almost everyone have a passport. Even household incomes f over 1k only 65% have a valid passport. It is easier for the industry if they dont have to have valid passports. 



#2726 Nparker

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 02:35 PM

Most cruise passengers carry passports. Also many of the Alaska passengers are not Americans (it is a very popular route with residents of the UK). I bet at least 60-70% of those on any cruise ship carry a passport as standard practice.



#2727 spanky123

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 02:39 PM

Almost everyone on a cruise ship will have a passport with them and all will have had to have a negative COVID test to board.

 

Cruise ships require an antigen test. Canada requires a PCR test. Most people won't cough up the extra $100 US without a reason.

 

I agree with Mike. I don't think too many people would be upset that they miss out on a 5 hour stop in Victoria during their ALASKAN cruise!

 

If the law is passed then I am sure that is the BS we will be given so that a few peeps get to keep their jobs for now.


Edited by spanky123, 01 October 2021 - 02:41 PM.


#2728 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 02:40 PM

we probably all agree. but having no passport requirement is a bonus for the cruise lines.

I know everyone wants to think they’d come here anyway.

but that is not evident with current schedules where for example Vancouver departures could stop here optionally but 97% choose not to.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 October 2021 - 02:42 PM.


#2729 Spy Black

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 03:23 PM

I think there's much more to this than just the Victoria cruise ship stops.

It's important to remember that cabotage serves a longstanding purpose, which is to prevent ships registered in foreign ports from gaining a financial and business advantage over any American shipping company that may want to utilize that same route.

 

It's easy to focus on cruise ships and passengers, but the fundamental purpose of the Jones Act is to prevent cargo from being moved about the United States by foreign flagged ships.

The Americans aren't suddenly going to reject cabotage and open up their coastal waters to the world to move freight around the United States as foreign flagged ships see fit. 

 

The entire exercise is to force a port of call in a foreign country in order to make shipping goods (say) between Los Angeles and Seattle not something that a foreign flagged cargo ship can even consider undertaking. 

 

Of course Alaska is going to push for more cruise ship traffic with less rules ... but the Jones Act, and cabotage apply to the entirety of the United States, including territories (like Puerto Rico, which has been trying to get rid of cabotage for decades now ... without even a hint of success). 

I agree that it's something Canadian and British Columbian politicians should be paying attention to, but I disagree that this is currently a "danger" to cruise ship traffic in Victoria. 

 

The real issue would be if the Americans withdrew the Jones Act entirely, and drafted two new acts that separated cruise ships from cargo ships ... thus opening the door for cabotage to remain for cargo, but to not apply to cruise ships.

That issue, however ... is one that will require the Congress and the Senate to enact ... with every single American flagged shipping company fighting it every step of the way, and with a long record of zero movement towards eliminating cabotage between American ports.


Edited by Spy Black, 01 October 2021 - 03:30 PM.

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#2730 Mike K.

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 03:59 PM

I think there's much more to this than just the Victoria cruise ship stops.

It's important to remember that cabotage serves a longstanding purpose, which is to prevent ships registered in foreign ports from gaining a financial and business advantage over any American shipping company that may want to utilize that same route.

 

It's easy to focus on cruise ships and passengers, but the fundamental purpose of the Jones Act is to prevent cargo from being moved about the United States by foreign flagged ships.

 

The issue in question is not the Jones Act, but the PVSA, the Passenger Vessels Services Act. The Americans want to make an exception for passenger vessels operating between the west coast of the US and Alaska, which are not flagged/built in the US, but operated by US companies, to be able to operate to Alaska without having to visit a foreign port in between.

 

The argument being made is Alaska's financial wellbeing should not be held hostage by a foreign nation, when American cruise ship operators are trying to bring business to a fellow American state.


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#2731 m3m

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 05:14 PM

The issue in question is not the Jones Act, but the PVSA, the Passenger Vessels Services Act. The Americans want to make an exception for passenger vessels operating between the west coast of the US and Alaska, which are not flagged/built in the US, but operated by US companies, to be able to operate to Alaska without having to visit a foreign port in between.

The argument being made is Alaska's financial wellbeing should not be held hostage by a foreign nation, when American cruise ship operators are trying to bring business to a fellow American state.


I’d be all for that. But then they should not be allowed to use foreign flagged vessels, use foreign crew, pay crew well below minimum wage, and and avoid paying US taxes.

#2732 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 01 October 2021 - 05:19 PM

I’d be all for that. But then they should not be allowed to use foreign flagged vessels, use foreign crew, pay crew well below minimum wage, and and avoid paying US taxes.

 

that would end the industry though. 

 

i agree they should do all that. 

 

but that will also end the industry (or shrink it 90%) in this part of the world.

 

it's the same economic reason Canadians flood to Mexico or Cuba for 7-14 day vacations in winter, rather than San Diego and Florida.

 

If Alaska cruises were $9,000 pp they would not be very attractive.

 

Island hopping in Hawaii should be a popular thing (Hawaii has 5x more visitors than Alaska), but with local crews and wages and ships it's not at all economical.  Except for one ship, the Pride of America (ironic name).  Compared to almost 25 ships serving Alaska.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 October 2021 - 05:25 PM.


#2733 pontcanna

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 03:41 AM

Our new reality — fewer cruise-ship visits
  • Times Colonist
  • 9 Oct 2021
  • PAUL SERVOS A commentary by a former chief executive officer of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority.
  •  

Victoria is at risk of losing more than half of its cruise-ship visits because of proposed changes to the U.S. Passenger Services Act.

 

The act was intended to protect jobs in the United States, but today, it is not protecting anything.

 

Those jobs were in shipbuilding, but no cruise ships have been constructed in the U.S. for decades, as well as in shipping — but if anything, the act is creating jobs in other countries.

 

Regulations of the act state that foreign-flagged, built and manpowered passenger ships cannot operate between U.S. ports. This means at least one foreign stop on a cruise — and American politicians are making serious efforts to end that requirement.

 

The Victoria market is driven by ships using Seattle as a home port, and our cruise tourism exists because of the Passenger Services Act.

 

More: https://digitaltimes...281694027956129

 

 

 



#2734 todd

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 03:58 AM

I have to admit the Ogden Point area was a bit more enjoyable over the last couple summers without the passengers.

Cruise ship passengers sleep on board eat on board buy most of their souvenirs on board. So mostly whale watching and Butchart Gardens which is nothing to be sneezed at. Have to remember they are “passengers” not “tourists”

Edited by todd, 09 October 2021 - 04:10 AM.


#2735 todd

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 05:12 AM

D60B9DFE-BF69-40AF-99E4-011E902934DB.jpeg


Edited by todd, 09 October 2021 - 05:14 AM.


#2736 Mike K.

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 06:14 AM

The true impact of this I don’t think is easily calculable, but we’re already seeing market changes in the form of tourism-dependant businesses for sale and real-estate for sale. Even simple things like the upkeep of our tourist precinct like the Welcome to Victoria flower bed are dependent on cruise ship revenues.

And remember, those cruise ship passengers are also being marketed to, during their stay in our port or sojourns into the city in whatever capacity they happen. People do return, sometimes years later, or on a subsequent cruise they vow to get off the ship after hearing about people’s experiences.
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#2737 Nparker

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:03 AM

As a cruise ship passenger, I have made numerous return visits for longer stays to places that were previously brief ports of call. I am certainly not the only one who does this.

 

I have also spent money in every port of call I have ever visited; from a few dollars for a snack or a drink, to hundreds of dollars on souvenirs, tours and other local purchases. To say cruise ship passengers do not benefit our economy is a lie.



#2738 Barrrister

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:04 AM

Trying to predict the US Congress is next to impossible. The bill provides a lot of advantages to Alaska so I think they will push it. I dont see any of our politicians riding to the rescue on this one. 

 

Personally I dont miss the mobs coming off the cruise ships but it will hurt a number of businesses downtown at a time that parts of the downtown are already struggling (the fact that downtown is becoming a bit of a crap hole is not helping either). 

 

Ogden point might be a good place to put a new Marine Museum Building in any event. 



#2739 Nparker

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:08 AM

...Ogden point might be a good place to put a new Marine Museum Building in any event. 

To be visited by who?



#2740 Barrrister

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:12 AM

We should still have a few cruises stopping (maybe). Free hot dogs with admission.

Maybe a Bavarian beer garden in front. 



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