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CUPE 410 endorsements


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#1 Rob Randall

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:57 AM

Yesterday when I was in James Bay meeting voters, someone handed me a print-out from CUPE local 410 with their endorsements for Victoria Mayor and Council.

I was suprised to see the endorsements: Fortin for Mayor, and for Council, Madoff, Hunter, Luton, Chandler and Lucas.

Their sole criteria, according to their website is:

candidates for municipal office who understand the value and importance of good Library service


I was never contacted or interviewed by anyone regarding library issues. If I had I would have gladly stated the work I've done supporting the library over the years. I've spoken to the local media about the need for a new Downtown library every chance I get. Last year I met with the GVPL CEO to express our wish for a new Downtown library that is worthy of BC's capital city and offering the DRA's support.

I've been using the library since it was located in its original home in the Carnegie Building at the corner of Yates and Blanshard. And I'm appreciative of the work the employees do.

I'm not angry; just disappointed that an issue so important to me was reduced to a simple matter of who stood on the picket line during last spring's library workers' strike. The strike occurred before I decided to run for City Council and as Chair of the Downtown Residents' Association, I don't like to take sides in labour disputes.

I'm not asking for an endorsement, just a chance to be fairly heard.

#2 Sue Woods

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:05 AM

I'm not asking for an endorsement, just a chance to be fairly heard.


Same here.

"Candidates who have expressed an interest in the plight of working men and women" is how it was stated in Monday Mag about Victoria Labour Council's endorsements.

I came from a working class family - have been a member of the BCGEU - (even a shop steward back in the day) - the Telecommunications Union - and have heralded/praised the unsung "workers" who built Victoria and our nation on my history show for half a decade!

I was never questioned by the VLC to be considered for their list (they give their 23,000 unionized members a "cheat sheet" to take into the polls on who to vote for based on members who are working people friendly.)

I may correct the record for Monday mag this week - if anyone else similiarly afftected would like to be included in my letter pls let me know. Then again time is short so I may pass. I just think we should all have been at least asked where we stand on workers rights.

#3 Baro

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:23 AM

If you wanted to be fairly heard by these people you would have attached your self to the partisan NDP affiliated group. I mean really, how could anyone care about libraries and unions without formally joining their group?
"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#4 Sue Woods

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:45 AM

And I choose to think that any self-respecting member of a democratic society would actually resent being given a "cheat sheet" - as if they lack the ability to discern and make judgements on their own behalf.

#5 Barra

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 04:03 PM

Here is the text of an email that I have sent to the VLC with regard to their endorsations.

"Interesting list of candidates posted on the VLC website. I don't see that any of them was ever a shop steward or a Victoria Labour Council delegate, which I think would be of interest to your members. As for me, I was an active shop steward for both locals 1201 and 601 of the BCGEU. In fact, I held these positions the entire time that I was a BCGEU member. During most of that time I was also a VLC delegate, and held office as Vice President of the Labour Council for one term. I attended and spoke at many BCGEU and CLC conferences.
I've heard that there was some kind of survey on privatization of the water and sewage systems, but I didn't see it. I had nice conversations with a young woman who was representing this issue for CUPE, but she didn't say anything about there being a survey for municipal candidates.
I think that you are doing your members and the broader public a disservice by not delving further in to the background of the candidates. It seems to be more of a matter of endorsing a self-selected slate than being based on a review of candidates to determine who is familiar and experienced with the issues.
Pieta VanDyke"

I hadn't seen the library letter that Rob Randall references, but I too am a strong library supporter - have worked in libraries previously, have a relative that works there now, and during the strike I emailed the Mayor while on vacation in Europe to pressure him to get negotiations moving.

As far as attaching myself to the NDP/green slate - that selection was made quite early and there did not seem to be any opportunity to enter in to discussion with them.
Pieta VanDyke

#6 Barra

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 04:19 PM

OK, now I'm really mad. I just went to the Times Colonist website which I KNOW I submitted my profile to - and they only list 16 of the 35 council candidates! I'm not there, Rob Randall is not there, nor is Susan Woods, Tim VanAlstine, Geoff Young, Pam Madoff etc etc.
Pieta VanDyke

#7 amor de cosmos

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 04:24 PM

it's simple; some people have to win at any cost!

#8 Sue Woods

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:01 PM

Here is the text of an email that I have sent to the VLC with regard to their endorsations.


Hi Pieta, I would not stop at that (no point preaching to the choir) but I think it would be good to submit your letter to the TC/ Monday/ News group. Hopefully some VLC members will take note and study their 'cheat sheet' with a more independent/curious eye.

I can't say I'm surprised or anything - but from what I see we have a bunch of worthy independants trying to swim against an organizational tide that denies they are an organized tide. Feels like a parallel universe, not to mention sneaky business.

As for the TC - I think they are doing the profiles in two sections (although they did not mention that unfortunately) as I see that only two incumbants are posted. I think we can be almost certain that no candidate would have passed up the request to submit. The curious part is that they could not use the excuse that they ran out of paper space - the web being a rather open playing field. Also the Sunday before an election edition would be better read then the Monday paper.

As for the web being useful to candidates and voters in our modern times - I have answered 25 web surveys and only see three posted on-line.

Maybe this is why they used to hold parades/ kiss babies/ stand on street corners and wave.

#9 Caramia

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

It seems very odd that the TC wouldn't have everyone up by now. Do you have the link to the TC site? I'd be happy to leave a comment for them about that too.

What I am hoping is that other candidates will post all their surveys on their election threads here on VV the way you guys have. Our site statistics show that we are getting a ridiculous number of hits a day to this section of the site.

The kissing babies part was actually a clever way to spread chicken pox and other immune system enhancing diseases back before we had a public health agency. Politicians were considered disposable, and so they were used to spread the germs.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#10 mat

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:33 PM

It seems very odd that the TC wouldn't have everyone up by now. Do you have the link to the TC site? I'd be happy to leave a comment for them about that too.

What I am hoping is that other candidates will post all their surveys on their election threads here on VV the way you guys have. Our site statistics show that we are getting a ridiculous number of hits a day to this section of the site.


It is not odd that the TC is failing to cover the municipal elections adequately, they promised to publish a full list of all registered candidates in the CRD core within 2 days of the deadline, it took 2 weeks. The so-called 'full' snapshots of each municipality are dreadful - simplistic and patronizing by concentrating on a single issue, as in Esquimalt by highlighting the Archie Browning Centre (important, but distracting)

It is truly unfortunate - the TC should be the 'paper of record' for Victoria and the CRD, they are increasingly irrelevant. VV is doing a far better job covering the campaigns for the City of Victoria and maybe Oak Bay, and that is due largely to the candidates themselves - it is too bad candidates from Saanich et al are not more active here.

#11 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:45 PM

It's all pretty surreal, isn't it?

On the one hand, there's a significant sector that's plugged into instant news, feedback, conversation, communication.

And on the other hand, there are these established outlets (Times-Colonist, the CUPE crowd) who are following the old ways -- which no one believes in any more!, hence all the cynicism, too. (By "old ways" I mean telling people what to think, how to vote, giving 'em "cheat sheets," all that nonsense.)

Do those old guys have more power? Or will more immediate (uncensored, unfiltered) conversations win out?
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#12 mat

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:09 PM

It's all pretty surreal, isn't it?

On the one hand, there's a significant sector that's plugged into instant news, feedback, conversation, communication.

And on the other hand, there are these established outlets (Times-Colonist, the CUPE crowd) who are following the old ways -- which no one believes in any more!, hence all the cynicism, too. (By "old ways" I mean telling people what to think, how to vote, giving 'em "cheat sheets," all that nonsense.)

Do those old guys have more power? Or will more immediate (uncensored, unfiltered) conversations win out?


So well said - with all the undertones and meanings. Of course it depends on impact and take up - the small core on VV are part of the communication evolution worldwide, but we are years away from this format replacing the mainstream media most of us abhor locally. In this election the old ways will win out (my opinion) as the 'youth' vote is inconsequential and facebook/social networking is irrelevant to core voters.

That will change - VV, and other websites, are coherent instigators of a local paradigm shift. The fact remains that (by my count) over 1/3rd of all CRD council candidates still do not have a website, or feel they need to engage in this medium. What will be more interesting is to see how many elected candidates who have websites, keep them active - and use the web to keep in touch, and solicit feedback from their constituents.

#13 Rob Randall

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:11 PM

I've heard that the TC will be correcting their mistake as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, the criteria for getting a VLC endorsement was "commitment to champion issues important to working people, " which is purposefully vague. But I think we all know what they mean.

#14 mat

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:19 PM

I've heard that the TC will be correcting their mistake as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, the criteria for getting a VLC endorsement was "commitment to champion issues important to working people, " which is purposefully vague. But I think we all know what they mean.


Well - let's hope. Frankly the TC and other local print media could do far more on the web, and truly get a new audience - but that is for another thread.

VLC? - is it lack of media recognition, or unions themselves, but I have not seen any union slates or recommendations for local elections before this last report. Rob - have you addressed a Union organized meeting, or even been asked to?

#15 Rob Randall

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:39 PM

Rob - have you addressed a Union organized meeting, or even been asked to?


I've never been asked. In my time as Chair I haven't had any contact with labour or union issues. I'm mostly dealing with rezonings and social issues. I understand those candidates applying for endorsement were given a questionnaire. I wonder if one of the questions was if you would cross a picket line.

I've worked two jobs where union membership was required. My dad was Vice-President Technical of the Air Traffic Controllers union and my stepdad was Shop Steward at the Times Colonist so I grew up in a union household and am very aware of workers' rights.

#16 mat

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:21 PM

I've never been asked. In my time as Chair I haven't had any contact with labour or union issues. I'm mostly dealing with rezonings and social issues. I understand those candidates applying for endorsement were given a questionnaire. I wonder if one of the questions was if you would cross a picket line.


Rob - if you would not mind answering a question - and this goes out to all other candidates.

The City of Victoria spends a great deal of tax payer money to out-source companies, to supply services and products. Some of those contracts are brought before council, others delegated to city managers under 'contract guidelines' set by council. Many of those out-sourced companies (employers and employees) are non-unionized, and rely on the Employment Standards Act.

1: Do you feel companies under contract to the City should be evaluated not only to price and service, but also to employee relations (pay, HR support, benefits)?

2: Do you feel the City provides enough oversight of outsourced companies - are they providing a cost benefit?

3: Do you feel the City should set new guidelines for outsourced companies to comply with any new council concerns over employment, environmental and financial issues.

#17 Rob Randall

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:42 PM

1- Sounds reasonable
2- I'm not sure
3- Sounds reasonable

#18 mat

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:29 PM

1- Sounds reasonable
2- I'm not sure
3- Sounds reasonable


hedging - you wimp :)

No one running for council should advocate a policy unless there is a clear understanding on finances -

But it also comes to image. If candidates advocate an environmental policy for the city (parks composting, city vehicles on sustainable energy, buildings at the highest level of energy conservation etc.), and on the same initiative provide staff with a working wage, decent benefits, and oversight on employment standards, then surely the same should apply to contracts - and especially those contracts where the company has direct public involvement, like bylaw enforcement.

#19 Chris J

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 09:21 AM

Haha, now I don't feel so bad judging candidates on how they deal with the homeless issues. You'd think a union would know better.
BTW, our library is fine. Spend the money on something else. This whole 'build us a new library thing' smells vaguely of bullying from contractors or some place, the way it has been made such an issue. (Not that I have anything about contractors, just that so much of city politics revolves around such contracts.)
Then again, I am sure I'll hear the whole story soon, as I do whenever I shoot my mouth off about a topic here.

#20 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 09:54 AM

This whole 'build us a new library thing' smells vaguely of bullying from contractors or some place, the way it has been made such an issue. (Not that I have anything about contractors, just that so much of city politics revolves around such contracts.)


That's a really nasty thing to say, imo. "...smells vaguely of bullying from contractors..." etc., talk about sliming an industry or alleging the dark, unseen hand of evil capitalist forces, etc.

Are you seriously suggesting that calls for a new library building have anything to do with greasing developers' sweaty paws? And where does this "so much of city politics revolves around such contracts" notion come from? Examples? "So much"? How much? Percentages? Numbers?
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

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