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CUPE 410 endorsements


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#21 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:30 AM

Haha, now I don't feel so bad judging candidates on how they deal with the homeless issues. You'd think a union would know better.
BTW, our library is fine. Spend the money on something else. This whole 'build us a new library thing' smells vaguely of bullying from contractors or some place, the way it has been made such an issue. (Not that I have anything about contractors, just that so much of city politics revolves around such contracts.)
Then again, I am sure I'll hear the whole story soon, as I do whenever I shoot my mouth off about a topic here.



------ Just because you don't see it , and it's not all in face or anything, doesn't mean it's NOT THERE...!

Prior to entering into contract talks with it's employee's , the library-board was talking about moving the library to the old-Hudson-bay building...!

Obviously the move to the new building, put those talks on hold....
ie: staff number's and ect. would all have to be re-negociated.

The move didn't happen ... and eventually , the workers went on strike.
( if I re-call correctly , the worker's forced the board back to the table , after a long delay prior to the strike. )

------------ A good question Criss ...? -----------

who wants that location ...?



ted... ( sometimes, to get below the skin , your questions have to bite...! )

#22 Caramia

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:34 AM

If you go to Burnside and see the new Library Saanich has built (on a very small budget), you will get an idea of the difference between the libraries of the future and the libraries of the past. And that is just a small community library. Better yet you can go to most decent sized cities and see how a library should look. Our library belongs to an obsolete model, prior to the information age. It is a book warehouse with little else to offer.

A new library should be designed with the demographic of the population in mind. Not just as it is now, but as it is projected to be over the next 50 years. In a poorer area a library should be a shelter from the cold for the poorest residents, it should be a place for children to come and spend the day, it should be a refuge for the elderly, it should be an equalizing force for the disabled. Todays new libraries are designed around information access - computer access, specifically. They are centers of the community, they have conference space, study rooms, work areas, and places to meet and mingle. They have continual, exciting, educational programing, free of charge. They are accessible to everyone.

The call for a new library has nothing to do with contractors. It has to do with a standard that is becoming international, and where Victoria has fallen behind. We call ourselves a literate, and learning city, but the role of a proper library is to distribute that intellectual capital down to the most disenfranchised citizen, to make learning fun for kids, and to provide internet access to everyone. A library is supposed to offer for free services that currently in this city you can't access without money. Our library is a dismal failure in all of these departments. We measure ourselves against the selfish individualistic capitalism of the USA, but then take a look at the libraries they build for their citizens and provide for free, measured against our token effort. How can we be doing so much less than they are and still take pride in our values? Our library isn't just over capacity, it is outdated. More than that - it is a disgrace.

Visit one of the new libraries in any City around the world, I promise you will come home disgusted with what we pass off to our citizens here. Live in a community that has a proper Central Library, and see the impact it makes on the children who grow up using it, and you'll come back demanding that we do better for our people.

(cough - welcome to my hot button topic hehe)
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#23 LJ

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 11:34 AM

Boy Caramia - you are sure expecting a lot from a library. I go to the library to get a book. Thats it. Thats all I expect - thats all I want.

Sure you don't want a community center rather than a library or are you combining the two things?
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#24 Chris J

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 01:21 PM

Ok, so I'm getting used to the fact that I shouldn't post anything here, especially opinion if I can't back it up with solid facts.
I was simply referring to the commonly (definition of common up for debate:how many people to consitute 'common'?) held belief (though not here, which seems like a development-friendly place) that because many decisions (don't know the ratio, sorry) that happen in city hall are related to zoning and development and that developers, having more money than homeless advocates, say have greater influence over civic matters, back certain candidates, etc. But you are right, this is just opinion, and all I could really defend is that this opinion is out there.
As for libraries, I have travelled around North America a great deal, stopping in the library in every town I visit to check email.
For a city this size the library is not bad. I think it could be better, but I am not 'disgusted'. After all, I realize we live in a town with a housing crisis, and were this the golden age and we weren't facing possible hard times economically (forest industry anyone?) then I'd say sure, let's build all these wonderful places of the future.
I share a passion for libraries, but like I keep saying, we have a serious housing crisis here, and the way the economy is going, we are going to have to tighten our belts in other places.

#25 Sue Woods

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 01:38 PM

On the five oclock news tonight - A Channel - Rob Randall and I are interviewed re the VLC endorsement process and that many of us candidates were 'left out' of the vetting and endorsement process re workers rights and keeping water and sewage in the public domain.

Since 23,000 union workers are being provided with "cheat sheets" to take into the polling stations this Sat - we believe this needed to be immediately addressed.

Also I have sent a letter to all media outlets re the same issue, signed by myself, Rob Reid, Rob Randall, Tim Van Estine, Simon Nattrass, Jospeh Boutillier, Richard Park and Pieta Van Dyke.

#26 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 02:26 PM

I was never contacted or interviewed by anyone regarding library issues. If I had I would have gladly stated the work I've done supporting the library over the years. I've spoken to the local media about the need for a new Downtown library every chance I get. Last year I met with the GVPL CEO to express our wish for a new Downtown library that is worthy of BC's capital city and offering the DRA's support.


I am the president of CUPE Local 410 (though I will be retiring from that position later this month). The local is a member of the Victoria Labour Council and chose to endorse all the candidates endorsed by the council. In most cases these are people who spoke out publicly during the lockout earlier this year. In addition to endorsing we have also contributed to several of the campaigns.

We endorsed folks who, by and large, were on our side in our time of greatest difficulty, but our endorsement is not limited to these people.

As a small voluntary organization we simply didn't have the manpower to contact all the candidates. The fact that we have endorsed certain folks doesn't mean that others aren't good library supporters. It means we knew about them and thought they were good candidates.

We have a public web page and email address and it was perfectly possible for anyone who wished our endorsement to contact us. If they had contacted us and explained their positions we would certainly have considered endorsing them as well. In fact we might add names to our list on the web page if we get information that convinces us this would be a good idea.

I'm not angry; just disappointed that an issue so important to me was reduced to a simple matter of who stood on the picket line during last spring's library workers' strike.


In fact our endorsments do include candidates who did not speak out publicly during the strike and lockout. Naturally we feel well disposed toward those who stood with us publicly but our endorsement was not limited to them.

#27 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 02:41 PM

I was never questioned by the VLC to be considered for their list (they give their 23,000 unionized members a "cheat sheet" to take into the polls on who to vote for based on members who are working people friendly.)


The VLC (to which I am a delegate) meets monthly in public and allows guests to sit in. Candidates who were known to them were contacted, but many did not even declare before the last moment. I understand that questionnaires were sent to anyone who requested them and i know that the process was made public at the September meeting, well before the registration deadline, having been at that meeting. I believe that everyone who applied for an endorsement was interviewed.

Any candidate who had attended recent meetings of the VLC would have known about this process. The VLC has had a facebook page for several months and just recently got a web site.

I think it is wrong to call our hand outs a "cheat sheet" since lists of candidates recommended by different organizations are both common and perfectly legal, no "cheating" about it.

I want to make it clear that I do not speak for the VLC, being merely a delegate who volunteered a bit of time to help out with the endorsement process. I hold no official position with the VLC except that of delegate.

#28 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:01 PM

If you go to Burnside and see the new Library Saanich has built (on a very small budget), you will get an idea of the difference between the libraries of the future and the libraries of the past. And that is just a small community library. Better yet you can go to most decent sized cities and see how a library should look. Our library belongs to an obsolete model, prior to the information age. It is a book warehouse with little else to offer.


I think this is a complete misrepresentation of our Library system. I am an employee of the GVPL and currently president of CUPE Local 410, which represents Public Library employees. I do not speak for the Library as an organization but am authorized by my position to speak for the membership of Local 410.

There is no branch of the GVPL that does not provide a number of publicly available, free access points to the internet. At the Central branch there are forty public computers right next to our main reference desk which are in constant use, and more scattered throughout the building. All our main help desks have professional staff with internet connected computers and the skills to get information quickly from many electronic resources.

We provide also, free access from home for Library card holders to large internet based database sites that would otherwise charge you directly to use them.

Members of Local 410 have never opposed the computerization of the Library, and even took without protest some layoffs in the 1980's when the first wave of computers came in.

But if you think your public libraries are "all about books" or "only about books" I wonder where you've been these past ten years? On the other hand, and in addition, we circulated more than four million unique items, including not just books but DVDs and CDs as well in 2007. If you had to buy these at paperback prices they would have cost you more than forty million dollars. Our tax charge to you was less than twelve million. So I think you are getting a heck of a deal and I am personally proud as the dickens to be a small part of delivering it.

To repeat, though, I do not speak for the Library or it's management, only for the members of CUPE Local 410 who proudly provide library service to the residents of this area.

#29 Mike K.

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:09 PM

The fact that we have endorsed certain folks doesn't mean that others aren't good library supporters. It means we knew about them and thought they were good candidates.

What exactly did John Luton do to warrant an endorsement?

Know it all.
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#30 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:20 PM

What exactly did John Luton do to warrant an endorsement?


He made himself known to us and asked for an endorsement. We examined his positions and record and decided he deserved one.

#31 Caramia

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:44 PM

Eseedhouse would you say you are against the modernization of the Central Branch? Or are you trying to say that it has been modernized enough already? For the record, I am a regular user of the library. I use it about 3 times a week. As a child I was a regular, I could find where the Bill Peet books were with my eyes closed. These days, however I find myself going to one of the branches, or up to UVic for better service - or worse, to Chapters or Bolens, especially when I have kids in tow.

You've said that you speak for the library workers, but many of the opinions I've stated here are shared by many employees at the Central Branch. I am fully behind the public library employees, and I feel that not only should they be better valued, and better paid, but that they should have more resources at their hands to do their job with.

I also disagreed strongly with the idea that librarians should be replaced with computerization. To me, librarians are more important than ever, a bridge between the new technologies and the average citizen. One term I like is "knowledge navigators"

The Central Library should be the center for literacy for the region. Is that really to much to ask? We say that we are worried about homelessness, and the widening gap between rich and poor. But by underfunding, and undervaluing our Central Library, we contribute to that problem in a systemic way. Education should be our birthright, at all ages. That will give us a future generation that is empowered and literate. That will give us a future generation that feels able to cope in an increasingly complex world. It is a preventative solution, and requires long term thinking, something our city sometimes seems short of. Instead we frantically try to put bandaids on problems downstream.

I'm not expecting Victoria to build the Seattle Public Library here as far as scale is concerned, but I'd expect us to move in that direction as far as type of services offered. I do expect us to do better than we have, and I do expect us to go further in delivering technical literacy to people.

********

Regarding the Cupe List, may I ask if when you distribute the list, you have a note somewhere explaining to members that you have not fully researched all candidates, a disclaimer as it were? If an organization starts endorsing particular candidates, I think it is fair to assume that organization has looked at all of them. I think most of your members will assume that. At which point you are guilty of misleading them, and potentially sabotaging your own agenda by failing to vote in people who would have been powerful advocates on your behalf.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#32 Bernard

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:17 PM

I think it should be make clear by CUPE 410 that they endorse the overall VLC list of endorsements. As it stands now, it can easily look like CUPE 410 has done the work to make a list of candidates that are specifically library or library worker friendly.

I think leaving the impression that the VLC endorsements are the best endorsements for the GVPL has the danger pointlessly alienating a lot of pro-library candidates that will be councilors after the election. CUPE 410 would be better in saying clearly that they are endorsing candidates that are acceptable to the local labour movement and not mention anything to do with the library.

As it stands, I can think of two candidates in Saanich that are among the most supportive of the Library and they are not on the CUPE 410 list of endorsements. It puts down some really hard work certain people did.

#33 mat

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:18 PM

Our family is of two minds when it comes to describing the utility and enjoyment of our local library. We are glad it is there, and our son has found some books and videos he enjoys, but mostly, the adult readers rarely come away with a book, or reference material, that fulfills our desire. Generally speaking stock is far too out of date, or most recent material is reserved months into the future - and here I mean computer program manuals, which go out of date fairly quickly. (what is the point of a computer reference section when manuals are only purchased on 'remainder' price from publishers - by the time it is on the shelf the world has moved on)

For entertainment it is nice to grab the occasional decent movie (DVD), if we are lucky enough to find one, out of a collection of mostly garbage, that we like, and that is not damaged (in the last few months we have returned 6 that would not play at all on any of our computers or DVD players, or even more frustrating, die half way through.)

All library staff are incredibly friendly and helpful - and their frustration level must be high in a time or quite radical change in reading habits, new media and future growth stymied by funding issues and youth spending more time video gaming than anything else.

Our consensus - we are glad the library is there, but it is increasingly irrelevant to our family.

#34 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:28 PM

Eseedhouse would you say you are against the modernization of the Central Branch?


There is little doubt that Victoria deserves a new Central Library. The current one is poorly located, and in a building never designed for a Library and has many features that get in the way of providing good service.

As the Capital city we should have a first class Library. But Library's won't work without the people that provide the service within them.

I also disagreed strongly with the idea that librarians should be replaced with computerization. To me, librarians are more important than ever, a bridge between the new technologies and the average citizen. One term I like is "knowledge navigators"

Personally I agree with you and there is no question of "replacing" books with computers. Books are still much more portable and robust, and much easier to read. But Libraries have always been about information (and that includes entertainment) than books per se. Books are currently the most practical physical carrier of that information and entertainment in several ways.

The Central Library should be the center for literacy for the region. Is that really to much to ask?

I agree, of course. But a new Central Library should be built in the context of the needs of all the users in the Capital area, not just as a monument of some kind.

Regarding the Cupe List, may I ask if when you distribute the list, you have a note somewhere explaining to members that you have not fully researched all candidates, a disclaimer as it were? If an organization starts endorsing particular candidates, I think it is fair to assume that organization has looked at all of them.

As a private individual I may vote for anyone I like in my municipality for any reason I like. That's democracy. As an independant local of CUPE, Local 410 may surely endorse candidates for whatever reason it chooses.

No one is required to follow our advice or agree with our opinions. We put them on our web page (www.cupe410.ca) for our own reasons and for what they are worth. Anyone is free to ignore them or follow them, as they may choose. We are confident that any of the candidates we endorse will support excellent library service in the Capital region. Others may as well, but did not make themselves known to us. There are some candidates whom we feel will not support good library service, but we have chosen not to cite any of their names.

And of course it is always possible that we are mistaken about someone. If that proves to be true then I hope we can learn from our mistakes.

It would simply be impractical to vet all of the dozens of candidates for office in this area. Candidates are free to make themselves known to us, and ask for our endorsement if they want it, but I can't see any obligation on our part to vet every possible candidate for office. Our Local is run by volunteers and we have no separate paid business agent. I and the other executive do full time jobs at the Library.

Our criteria were simply that we decided we could support with our endorsement any candidate that the VLC endorsed (we are after all a member of the VLC) because we had confidence in their process. As well we may endorse other candidates whom we have reason to believe will support good library service, and in at least one case we have.

#35 Sue Woods

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:32 PM

I think it is wrong to call our hand outs a "cheat sheet" since lists of candidates recommended by different organizations are both common and perfectly legal, no "cheating" about it.


I have just signed on and so have not read the rest of thr posts but will do so in a momnnt - but first - the words "cheat sheet" were printed in Monday Mag Nov 6th is an article profiling VLC/Mike ESo etc etc.

Not my words. And the last time I used a cheat sheet was in elementary school!

Sue

#36 Sue Woods

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:41 PM

Letter sent to the media today based on article in Nov 6 issue of Monday called 'Labour of Love' re VLC endoresments:

This Saturday 23,000 union affiliated workers will be entering polling stations with, as quoted in a local newspaper, “cheat sheets” provided by the Victoria Labour Council (VLC) to guide their vote based on which candidates favour the plight of the working man and woman, and favour keeping water and sewage in the public domain.

On behalf of a transparent electoral process, and in keeping with the spirit of the BC Elections Act that all candidates be provided fair and equal treatment in the public domain, we wish to inform that VLC President Mike Eso’s statements made while announcing VLC’s endorsed candidates are false, misleading and detrimental to voters in the City of Victoria.

Eso’s stated “The council executive actively interviewed candidates before giving them the thumbs-up and not all candidates interviewed made the cut. Not all candidates were interested in garnering an endorsement from organized labour.”

As a group of independent candidates endeavouring to offer non-partisan representation at City Hall, we wish to clarify that none of us were approached by the VLC about our positions on worker’s rights or keeping vital infrastructure in public hands. We were not interviewed for an opportunity to be included on the “cheat sheets”. And after the endorsed list was made known our calls to the VLC to request an interview went unanswered.

We are not in favour of privatizing water and sewage - and have as much, if not more, accumulated experience working within unions, and in some cases as shop stewards, as those endorsed. I have also, as host of a history radio show in Victoria, spent the last five years heralding the unsung workers who built our city, province and nation since Confederation.

Eso further states, “They’re not just all the NDP candidates. We’re endorsing Greens and we’re endorsing people who are non-aligned in terms of partisan politics.” The truth of the matter is that all of the VLC’s endorsed candidates are known to be aligned with the NDP and Green parties.

Since the union vote comprises one of the largest voter blocks, we hope members will review their cheat sheets with a curious and independent eye since they have been misled to believe that all candidates were equally and fairly vetted on their behalf.

Sincerely yours,
Susan Woods on behalf of Rob Reid, Rob Randall, Pieta Van Dyke, Tim Van Estine, Simon Nattrass, Richard Park, Joseph Boutillier.

#37 Caramia

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 04:48 PM

The question isn't if you have a right to endorse candidates without doing your full homework. Rather it is if you are making sure that your members understand that you haven't done that homework. The moral question is this - people turn to their leaders for endorsements because they also feel overwhelmed with vetting 45 candidates. Small groups of volunteers from organizations with just as little time on their hands all over the city have sent questions to candidates, and those candidates answered. So when they endorse or don't endorse, it is with authority of at least having seen who thought their questions were worth the time. This is the standard other groups as diverse as residents associations, dog-walkers, and harm reduction advocates have met. If you have no intention of meeting them, it is imperative that your membership realize it, and that they are not tricked into thinking you've done the same level of research as everyone else.

I hope you don't think I am asking for a monument as a Library. The example I sited as a library that is imo built very well is the new one in Burnside - The Saanich Centenial Library, and I think you would agree, it is actually quite humble as far the building is concerned. But it is purpose built, and it is a partnership between a recreation center and library. Someone did their homework in figuring out the needs of the neighbourhood, which is predominantly working class, lower income and families. I think they did an admirable job of answering those needs. The litmus test? A bunch of teenagers in backwards ball-caps and falling down jeans grouped excitedly at a table with a librarian. When was the last time you saw that downtown?

Some of the services offered...

  • A computer training area, the Learning Centre
  • Designated Internet stations in the Information Commons area
  • Digital reference and homework help stations
  • Collections to enhance family literacy and lifelong learning
  • Program area for children and families
  • Adult reading/program area in the "Living Room"
  • Teen Zone with computer gaming stations
  • Group study room
  • 32" flat screen TV installed to provide information about library programs and services

from the GVPL site

Perhaps I am too strong a critic of the current central library, I sure don't mean to denegrate the steps forward it has made. But if the citizens don't demand more, I doubt we will ever get it.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#38 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 05:21 PM

I think it should be make clear by CUPE 410 that they endorse the overall VLC list of endorsements. As it stands now, it can easily look like CUPE 410 has done the work to make a list of candidates that are specifically library or library worker friendly.


I was part of the committee that designed the VLC questionnaire and know the people who sat in the interview process quite well, and I know and helped design the questions that were asked. I am confident, and our Executive commitee felt satisfied, that the VLC recommendations are of candidates who care about Library service.

I am sorry, but if you want to run for office the responsibility for obtaining supporters is yours. The groups you may want support from are responsible to their members, not the candidates.

If you think our advice or recommendations are bad you are free to ignore them. It is a free country and we are putting our opinions out there for your consideration, but it is up to you to decide what they are worth.

#39 eseedhouse

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 05:32 PM

The question isn't if you have a right to endorse candidates without doing your full homework. Rather it is if you are making sure that your members understand that you haven't done that homework.


I am happy with the work we did and stand by the decisions made by our executive committee. I think anyone or any independant organization has the right to endorse anyone they want for any reason they want. I think the candidates we've endorsed are strong supporters of Library service and deserve your vote.

If you disagree that's fine too.

#40 Caramia

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 05:43 PM

So your members have to vet not only the candidates, but their own representatives? That's rough.

It is simple, tell your workers, "Look, the following two parties have supported unions, therefore we are supporting candidates with ties to them. There are also a bunch of independents running but with so many to look at and so little time, we haven't checked into their background"

That way you aren't implying anything untrue. And you've left room for yourself to gracefully say at a later date "Oh, and it turns out the following candidate also has an extensive background in labour organizing and his wife and children walked our picket lines with us."

This way you burn no bridges and tell no lies.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

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