29 replies to this topic

[Caramia]

The Downtown Social Services providers recently crunched some numbers for us.. It costs taxpayers about $40,000 per year to have someone living on the streets... thats medical, policing, services etc etc etc. It costs an average of $20,000 a year to house that person with supportive housing (housing + whatever supervision/assistance they need for addictions/mental health issues and whatnot). Our Place and Cool Aid both provide transitional housing and a place for people that isnt in front of businesses... and for the amount they are saving taxpayers and business by doing that, they should definitely get a tax break. Last weekend, for the first time, Our Place was open all weekend. It made a visible difference downtown, especially around Store St where I work.

[TheVisionary]

I think the "Staff" of social aid organizations like Churches, and others are making really good salaries. You don't think everytime you donate to local, national, international aid agencies, that 100% of the money goes to their clients, do you? I'm a fiscal conservative and belief that all organizations should be taxed on their incomes and they have to carry their own weight. I feel uneasy about hand holding and "babying" them. It's the survivial of the fittest, strongest, fastest.

[G-Man]

You have to pay people a wage that will attract people that are at least competent. Most church organizations and other NGOs pay crap by private industry standards. The majority of people that work at NGOs are university educated and make less than they would doing the same job in either the public or Private sector. People take these jobs because they are willing to make less money so that a necessary service can be provided. Perhaps the one exception to this rule would be Private schools such as SMUs but that is not truly a fair example.

As a fiscal conservative you should welcome NGOs and church orgs. as they usually take over services that have been taken away by the government.

[Phil McAvity]

Derf, in a roundabout way you have already answered your own question. By churches not paying property taxes (and thank god for that!), they are indirectly being subsidized by the government to help the homeless.

The thing i find so frustrating about these sorts of discussions is that no one ever wants to get to the cause of homelessless and without that, the solution will forever elude us.

[TheVisionary]

If I had my way, all churches and charities will be paying taxes like private citizens and corporations. Charities and churches, or other religious groups have been getting a "free ride" for too long. They need to adhere to business principles and economic laws. No, the city should not give Our Space any kind of break on the fees! When the government give too many free breaks, we our training them to become "money leeches". Teach them there are no "free lunches"; everyone must pay at some time. :smt017

[Baro]

I agree that churches should pay tax like any other service, but charity should never pay taxes. The lack of tax for charity is a sort of thank you from the government for doing their job and skipping the middle man. It's either we pay taxes which then go through quite a few steps where the money shrinks each time then finally ending up in a badly managed social program, or people just doing the social program them selves. Isn't this the perfect right wing libertarian approach to charity?

Or, I guess I forget who I'm replying to. You probably want to tax out all charity so none is offered. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST LOLZ MORE MONEY FOR MEEE.

[VicHockeyFan]

I agree that churches should pay tax like any other service, but charity should never pay taxes. The lack of tax for charity is a sort of thank you from the government for doing their job and skipping the middle man. It's either we pay taxes which then go through quite a few steps where the money shrinks each time then finally ending up in a badly managed social program, or people just doing the social program them selves. Isn't this the perfect right wing libertarian approach to charity?

Or, I guess I forget who I'm replying to. You probably want to tax out all charity so none is offered. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST LOLZ MORE MONEY FOR MEEE.

Yes it is. We would like no taxes to got to social programs. They should all be paid through service organizations and churches membership and fundraising. Then people who want to contribute do (and can choose where they want to direct their charity), instead of the govermment making us contribute to whatever they deem fitting to tax us for.

[Baro]

Nah, charity should be made a crime and no one should be allowed to do it. If poor people get help, we're ENCOURAGING poverty sheesh. Everyone should be like a wildcat or shark prowling for prey on their own, survival of the fittest, eat the sheep! We could enslave the poor to work in gulags making statues of Ayn Rand. Serves em right eh? Should have thought about the consequences before they chose to be poor. Man it's awesome being a rich and powerful shark in the free waters of society. Ladies love us rich go-getters who play by the rules of the jungle! Kill or be killed am I rite lolz??!

[gumgum]

^Hehe. You tryin' on your Visionary voice?

[TheVisionary]

I watched one of those educational channel shows on ocean predators like sharks, whales, squids, octopus, jelly fish, and others. They are amazing! Disputes and territory fights get solved so fast in nature. It's satisfying to watch a tonne of fish killing machine dart towards lunch and then chewing them to bits! Oh yeah, I'm just a human shark.

I like classic movies like A Christmas Carol and Oliver Twist. "Please sir, may I have some more?" "What! You want MORE!?" "BAH HUMBUG! HUMBUG, I say!"

Remember, if you are too much a softy, you will get taken advantaged of. Just look at those virginal tourist who have no idea about the local pan handling problem. They are fresh meat into the grinder.

Some pissed of Security Guard wrote to Monday Magazine complaining on how Victoria is turning in to a slum hole. An ignored street beggar patted him down and tried to search his pockets for spare change. The off duty guard slapped his hands away. I would probably punch, kick, and beat the bum who tries to search my pockets for money.

These charities and other "social agencies" are attracting some of these social deviants downtown. It's like an underclass theme park for them and day at the fair for them. Oh yeah, I just love living and commuting next to really screwed up people! Please sir, may I have some more? I can't get enough of the dead beats!