29 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Read first:

Our Place seeks $142,000 break from city taxpayers

Sep 20 2006

Our Place street ministry has asked the City of Victoria to waive more than $142,000 related to the construction of the organization's new facility on Pandora Avenue.

A report from City Spaces Consulting, submitted at Thursday's committee-of-the-whole meeting on behalf of Our Place, asks the city to waive more than $139,000 in building permits and other municipal fees for the project.

Our Place is also requesting a $3,625 grant to cover the cost of an encroachment agreement related to the excavation of anchoring rods on the Our Place site. Council referred the request to the city's finance and human resources committee.

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How do you feel about this? I understand churches (who do a lot for the homeless population and support many social programs) and non-profit, even humanitarian, organizations pay their way when it comes to municipal costs, levies and services. Is it fair for tax payers to pay for this? Could this be the beginning of a slippery slope? Victoria tax payers are already on the hook for having to support much of the homelessness and social problems of the downtown area and accomodating even more requests of this type may send the wrong message.

My solution would be to request the $150,000 from neighbouring municipalities who do not support their weight on this issue. I'm looking at Oak Bay, Esquimalt, and especially Saanich. The West Comms are also constantly looking at ways to butt out of support for such programs only to point the finger at downtown's declining social situation.

[Holden West]

Churches pay their way you say?

Churches, and the property they sit on are exempt from property taxes. Think of the fair market value of the real estate Victoria's churches sit on. We get some beautiful architecture of course, but we miss out on the tax revenue other uses would bring.

Getting the other municipalities to assist in social issues is vital. Victorians are sick and tired of carrying the burden while the Saanich, Langford et al look the other way.

[Scaper]

As a local Church member I am very disapointed with the church. People keep saying why isn't more being done to help the homeless and street population. The Church isn't taxed and the Church should be the first place to open their doors for these people. Yet the Church has fallen so far away from what the Christian doctrine teaches and proclaims regarding how to help these people. Even the church I belong to or I guess use to belong to, Central Baptist , all it's doors are locked all day. Even if you are a member you have to buzz in and get basically carded to just talk to the front desk person. If all the churches got together and help feed these people and give these people a place to rest for the night and do what is spoken by the Book they proclaim to represent, our street people problem would be much less of a problem. But instead they lock their doors and shut these people out! It makes me quite upset actually.

[Mike K.]

Is Our Space expected to pay property taxes? Were churches (at least Victora's churches) built from tax payers dollars? I ask because I'm not sure of the answers.

Furthermore, churches are closed because they can't afford to keep their doors open. Faced with declining attendance, rising operational costs and growing societal ills (for which most churches still contribute out of eyesite and earshot from most citizens) churches can't be expected to spend millions on a seemingly never-ending and always growing expense.

Churches don't close doors because they want to. They close doors because they have to. And those that can keep their doors open and can maintain social services certainly do it. Many social services are even provided by agencies setup and partly funded by religious organizations, such as the Salvation Army, an "evangelical part of the universal Christian church."

Maybe the answer is to fund churches, who in turn care for the needy in our community? :smt017

[Holden West]

Funnel my tax money to an unaccountable organization so they can engage in dubious [url=http://www.seattlearch.org/FormationAndEducation/Progress/062005/Victoria+Diocese+Owes++++Attorney+6-9-05.htm:a1774]horse-breeding and real estate schemes[/url:a1774] and to buy new hats for the [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5946604,00.html:a1774]Pope[/url:a1774]?

No thanks.

[Oxford Sutherland]

As a local Church member I am very disapointed with the church. People keep saying why isn't more being done to help the homeless and street population. The Church isn't taxed and the Church should be the first place to open their doors for these people. Yet the Church has fallen so far away from what the Christian doctrine teaches and proclaims regarding how to help these people. Even the church I belong to or I guess use to belong to, Central Baptist , all it's doors are locked all day. Even if you are a member you have to buzz in and get basically carded to just talk to the front desk person. If all the churches got together and help feed these people and give these people a place to rest for the night and do what is spoken by the Book they proclaim to represent, our street people problem would be much less of a problem. But instead they lock their doors and shut these people out! It makes me quite upset actually.

That's a good point. If every church created 5 shelter places within their building, it would be a huge help to the homeless situation. It would also disperse the visibility of homelessness throughout the CRD instead of concentrating it on mass shelter places like Streetlink on Store Street which tends to create a ghetto effect and brings down the whole area.

[VicHockeyFan]

Funnel my tax money to an unaccountable organization so they can engage in dubious [url=http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050902&Category=NEWS06&ArtNo=509020330&SectionCat=&Template:e9cf9]horse-breeding and real estate schemes[/url:e9cf9] and to buy new hats for the [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5946604,00.html:e9cf9]Pope[/url:e9cf9]?

No thanks.

Horse-breeding should be the centre-piece of all religions. 8)

[G-Man]

Churches pay no proprerty tax and there is a move afloat in Langford to make Golf Course land tax exempt too!

Yeah I am sure that all those Oak Bay Churches would be happy to allow a few homeless people in at night! HA!

Personally if Our Place needs a break than they should get it.

[Mike K.]

Funnel my tax money to an unaccountable organization so they can engage in dubious [url=http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050902&Category=NEWS06&ArtNo=509020330&SectionCat=&Template:76cb8]horse-breeding and real estate schemes[/url:76cb8] and to buy new hats for the [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5946604,00.html:76cb8]Pope[/url:76cb8]?

No thanks.

Yes, but we gladly funnel our money to governments that partake in even worse practices with our dollars (cough cough...scandals...cough).

That's a good point. If every church created 5 shelter places within their building, it would be a huge help to the homeless situation. It would also disperse the visibility of homelessness throughout the CRD instead of concentrating it on mass shelter places like Streetlink on Store Street which tends to create a ghetto effect and brings down the whole area.

If churches are expected to help deal with societal problems, how are churches expected to fund such services? Churches provided the services they did because they had the financial ability to do so. Today we have declining church attendance althewhile expect churches to fund social services? It might take more than the grace of God to make that equation make sense.

[Oxford Sutherland]

How much money does it cost to let people sleep on the floor of a church basement?

[G-Man]

A lot actually. The 30 spaces at St John the Divine that are being provided for six weeks are costing around 45 000 bucks.

[Oxford Sutherland]

What are they spending that money on?

[Oxford Sutherland]

It costs $45,000 for 42 days of emergency shelter?

$1071 a day?

$36 a day per person?

[VicHockeyFan]

^ Hey, that's nothing. What are the costs per unit for the new Open Door?

[Mike K.]

Around $320,000 each.

Thats 45 units. And councillors Fortin, Madoff and Chandler rip into developers selling condos twice the size of the Our Space units priced at $450,000.

[Oxford Sutherland]

The Ocean Island Backpackers Hostel on Johnson & Blanshard costs as little as $11 a day, and they've got a front desk staffed 24 hours a day, private bathrooms, bike storage, laundry, kitchen, and a TV room.

[Mike K.]

Yeah, but they couldn't survive on having staff, electricity, insurance, heat, and other provisions if they charged $55 for five people -- and nothing more. The private bathrooms are for the costlier units and everything you use at that place costs extra.

Their flat room rates are also based on volume with most paying substantially more than $11 a night.

[Oxford Sutherland]

You can even rent monthly rooms at the Travellers Inn hotel for $24 a night

Seems kind of strange to me when a church needs $36 a night per person to offer shelter.

[Oxford Sutherland]

In the summer, anyone can live in the cluster housing at UVic for $15 a day where you get a private room with bed & desk, kitchen, and share a bathroom with 1 other person.

[G-Man]

It is the policing, security and cleaning that costs the extra money.