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#1 Holden West

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:23 AM

The Vancouver Sun has obtained a list of all BC Public Sector Employees making over $75,000 a year:

A total of 759 B.C. public servants make more than $200,000 a year, according to an exclusive database of government pay compiled by The Vancouver Sun.


Searchable list

To find Victoria's click on "local government" from the first drop-down list and "Victoria" from the second.

It's amazing how many Victoria fire department chiefs and captains are making more money than the mayor!

Here's Victoria's top ten in local government (not including VIHA etc.)


BALLANTYNE, PENNY City Manager (Contract), Mayor/Managers $164,752 Details

MCCLIGGOTT, P. MICHAEL Comptroller, Mayor/Managers $148,959 Details

DAY, DEBORAH E Director of Planning & Dev., Planning and Development $130,666 Details

SPARANESE, PETER Director of Engineering, Engineering $128,734 Details

JENKYNS, JOCELYN M. General Manager VCC, Conference Centre $128,078 Details

ANGROVE, DOUG Fire Chief, Fire $127,988 Details

WOODLAND, ROBERT GRAYDON Director of Planning & Dev., Corporate and Regulatory Services $123,579 Details

DEANE, DARRELL Captain, Fire $116,253 Details

SCOTT, TRINA Director of Human Resources, Human Resources $115,742 Details

HENSON, DAVID M. Captain, Fire $111,546 Details
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#2 G-Man

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:09 PM

I always wonder why this matters. I mean are people implying that these are unreasonable amounts of money?

I am not on the list which if you knew who I was would allow to know that I make less than $75 000 which perhaps is more of an invasion of privacy than letting everyone else know how much you do make.

#3 spanky123

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 12:48 AM

Hmmm.

The guy down the street who is spending $200K renovating his million dollar home only makes $76K a year!

I suspect that this will only give Government workers something else to gripe about when they find out how much their manager makes and how little work he/she does.

#4 ted - 3 - dots

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:28 AM

I always wonder why this matters. I mean are people implying that these are unreasonable amounts of money?

I am not on the list which if you knew who I was would allow to know that I make less than $75 000 which perhaps is more of an invasion of privacy than letting everyone else know how much you do make.



--------- The disabled on welfare earn $ 10,000 a year .

now you know , ( HOW CHEEP WE ARE FORCED TO LIVE ) ...!
So excuse me when I try to secure , $2.oo -$3.oo of your pocket-change ...?


$ 7,400 goes to pay my rent , $200-$300 - goes to utilities ,
the rest goes to food & laundry ...!

Because I pay too much for rent , (ie: more than the $375.oo/month they supply ) ,,,,
that means ,,,, that I am NOT eligable for an extra-food-allowance or any of the EXTRA'S...! ( such as clothing , furniture , dental , eye-glasses , )

Ya, Cambell cut-off all of that stuff ........! ( ie: durring the MLA-pay raise )

------------ Bottom - Line ...? ------------------

I find it very funny that people earning $ 75K or more , think they are worth more than that

and how quickly they CONDEM the poor FOR ASKING FOR MORE MONEY ...????????


Ps, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE I LIVE IN BC ,,, inflation will ALWAYS BE THERE to greet me....!

( ie: my cost of living allways goes up ,,,, as my income ALWAYS remians STAGNET and fixed @ the 1998 COST-OF-LIVING rates )

ted... ( simply walk a mile in my shoe's ) constant-pain
( ya , it really does hurt to be me ) and the BIGGEST-PAIN ...? is NOT being able to work


;{-


.
.
.

and @ one time in my life , I owned a bakery & constrution company ...!

(strangly, I seem to have become an ANTI-RIGHT-WING , protester...!!!!!!!!!!! )


it has something to do with FAIR-NESS for all , and NOT SUPORTING THE GREED of a few ...

#5 G-Man

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 11:49 AM

Hmmm.

The guy down the street who is spending $200K renovating his million dollar home only makes $76K a year!

I suspect that this will only give Government workers something else to gripe about when they find out how much their manager makes and how little work he/she does.


See that is the problem with this list. You are already making speculation regarding a public servant based solely on how much they make. Perhaps they have investments that have paid off. Perhaps they have family money. Perhaps their spouse makes even more.

Or perhaps they are willing to go into debt to make their home the way they want it.

Also you are making the assumption that the average public servant manager does little work which I again I think is untrue.

#6 concorde

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 12:27 PM

I always wonder why this matters. I mean are people implying that these are unreasonable amounts of money?

I am not on the list which if you knew who I was would allow to know that I make less than $75 000 which perhaps is more of an invasion of privacy than letting everyone else know how much you do make.


Everything in government is public information and its one of the reasons I left government employment decades ago. With a simple request, people could find out to the penny what a specific person made, how much overtime they received and even copies of all written correspondence he/she wrote including all emails.

If you don't like it, do what I did, give them my resignation and never look back.

#7 G-Man

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 02:07 PM

I actually strongly feel that people in the public should be able to access all expenditures of government. That said showing but one aspect at the exception of all others I think is my problem. Why not publish a list of how much each branch in governemnt spends on pencils as it may be more telling then how much certain people make.

#8 spanky123

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 03:53 PM

The comment regarding house renovations was in the TC and if I recall was made by Murray Coell. I was being tongue in check.

I was also referring more to non-managers in the Government comparing their own pay and work effort to those they work for.

I don't believe in coincidences however. Two weeks ago the Canadian Taxpayers associations releases a report that states that Government employees are overpaid 17% compared to their private sector counterparts. Last week a report comes out stating that Government employees are planning to wait an additional 5-6 years to retire due to the devaluation of their retirement funds. Now we publish Government employee salaries online.

There are a lot of rumours in Government that the Liberals are forecasting a huge deficit in 2009/2010. We have law now of course that prevents a deficit from being run so I am thinking that the Liberals are trying to turn public opinion against public sector employees in advance of either large layoffs and/or salary cuts.

I am usually wrong about these types of things but it makes for gossip.

#9 LJ

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

Most workers salaries are readily available. Anyone who has a union contract if fair game, the police, firemen etc. What's the big deal?

This is the information age, with the right motivation almost every aspect of your "private" life can be uncovered and shared.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#10 mat

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:23 PM

The comment regarding house renovations was in the TC and if I recall was made by Murray Coell. I was being tongue in check.

I was also referring more to non-managers in the Government comparing their own pay and work effort to those they work for.

I don't believe in coincidences however. Two weeks ago the Canadian Taxpayers associations releases a report that states that Government employees are overpaid 17% compared to their private sector counterparts. Last week a report comes out stating that Government employees are planning to wait an additional 5-6 years to retire due to the devaluation of their retirement funds. Now we publish Government employee salaries online.

There are a lot of rumours in Government that the Liberals are forecasting a huge deficit in 2009/2010. We have law now of course that prevents a deficit from being run so I am thinking that the Liberals are trying to turn public opinion against public sector employees in advance of either large layoffs and/or salary cuts.

I am usually wrong about these types of things but it makes for gossip.


In marketing terms there is something to that - although a 'conspiracy' between such disparate organizations is hard to fathom. What you often see in in both the public/political sector and corporate world is the soft launch - a speech hinting a direction, a research document published, a journalist 'fed' a line to explore - the reaction is judged through polling, and if favourable (either way), a new policy is launched.

Judging from the tone of the articles it is hard not to determine the editorial line - public sector employees are paid over the top. Readers seeing salaries of $200 000 and more will generally have a negative reaction. The Victoria City Manager getting $164.000....?

None of the media I have read has even attempted to compare like on like public sector salaries in other jurisdictions, or with similar managerial positions in private business. My bet - the posted salaries are slightly below par.

This really does have the smell of a public awareness campaign in advance of government announcements on hiring and wage freezes - welcome back to the '80's!!

#11 Holden West

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 08:00 PM

^Maybe, but if you actually read the article, you'll see that the government fought against the publication of the salaries for the most part. Some complied with Can West's freedom of information request but others only grudgingly complied, supplying reporters with difficult-to-transcribe paper copies or .pdfs.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#12 mat

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:02 PM

^Maybe, but if you actually read the article, you'll see that the government fought against the publication of the salaries for the most part. Some complied with Can West's freedom of information request but others only grudgingly complied, supplying reporters with difficult-to-transcribe paper copies or .pdfs.


That was my point - it is difficult to see an organized effort on behalf of established government to set the agenda, in fact it looks more like a protectionist effort to keep managers in place; hiding their salaries, while cutting programs and contract/short term staff.

#13 househuntvictoria

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:23 PM

Two weeks ago the Canadian Taxpayers associations releases a report that states that Government employees are overpaid 17% compared to their private sector counterparts. Last week a report comes out stating that Government employees are planning to wait an additional 5-6 years to retire due to the devaluation of their retirement funds. Now we publish Government employee salaries online.


Two things, neither in defence of pay rates, but:

1) BC public sector pensions payments are not calculated using market returns. Most are a simple calculation of 2% times avg of five year's highest salary times years of service. If you're a city manager or exec director in the provincial government, you have to work 35 years to qualify for full pension, and it usually works out to about 78% of your last work year's average salary. The investment return of the fund determines future contribution rate increases.

2) The study by the CTF was comparing federal public sector jobs versus their private sector counterparts. Fed jobs pay, on average, 10% better than prov equivalents. Personally, I view it as flawed because the definitions of comparitive public to private positions are very "loose," that is, you can't compare a branch manager of a retail bank with a branch manager of the Ministry of Finance, they are very different jobs with different skill sets, with very different people to manage and other accountabilities.

I'm all for holding public sector executives accountable. I don't buy the "grossly overpaid" mantra often tossed about. Grossly over-protected from standard accountability is a definite certainty and a whole other discussion.

#14 Zimquats

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:53 AM

Anybody who thinks that a public sector employee gets paid more than their private sector 'mirror' is grossly mistaken. There's a very good reason the truly talented don't work public. And I say that knowing full well the slams that are coming from the large number of public servents who post on these forums, but the fact is it's true. There are sooo many private sector guys with sooo much less responsibilty that make sooo much more than those guys...this is a non issue in my opinion.

If the current public employees don't like the wages their managers make, quit. Get out of the union, and show what you can do privately, and for more money. Of course, these people will have to actually perform or they'll get fired, but really, they could just put there money where their mouth is. We all know that won't happen....way easier to just complain.

#15 G-Man

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:28 AM

Are you saying that public servants are both stupid and inept?

Wow. Is there the possibility that people choose the public sector over the private? I did.

I don't think I will respond much more to your post but I will say that many of the smartest people I know work in the public service.

#16 spanky123

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:16 AM

I don't think that the intent is to try and qualify the claims made in the media. I only pointed out that to the layperson the CTF/media are portraying Government employees as overpaid. I don't think that the average person is drawing a distinction between the Federal and Provincial civil service.

The Provincial Liberals have been fairly methodical in their actions over the past few years so I simply speculated why at this point they orchestrated the release of the salary data.

#17 yodsaker

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:39 PM

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
Pay fairly and get the best available people for the job.

My only objection is when a high-paid burocrat (Exec Director or ADM/DM level) resigns voluntarily and then gets a fat payoff in addition. Mere mortals don't get that.

#18 concorde

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:08 PM

I will say that many of the smartest people I know work in the public service.


I used to think that when I worked for the public sector years ago. Boy, was I ever wrong.

#19 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:45 PM

Ever ask a public servant to put in writing what they just told you in person? They will never do it. That's how lame I find them.

#20 G-Man

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:10 PM

Wow I am actually insulted and saddened by everyone on here. I don't usually feel that way about stuff on here.

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