27 replies to this topic

[Sue Woods]

With President Bush and Sarah Palin off the scene, we need not fret for lack of amusing behaviour in our Capital City with our fresh batch of three rookie politicians giving us plenty of comedic fodder. I for one am anticipating three glorious years of audacious pontifications, gaffes and knee-slappers.

True - but lots of political satire on the Comedy Channel.

We have serious problems - and I am hoping for three productive years of dealing with them.

Last week two murders related to robberies - another yesterday - and on Monday night three young men I know were assaulted in Centennial Square at 8:30 pm by crack heads (after leaving an art show I was at in the theatre lobby). Last summer another family friend was swarmed and pepper sprayed walking home along Fort Street at midnight. That week alone there were five similiar attacks by roaming groups of up to 12 teens. I have heard numerous stories about the young and elderly being threatened downtown and in many cases mugged - but it never makes the local news. Why, I don't know.

The McPherson Theatre has now hung signs on all interior doors telling patrons as they leave shows to use the lit streets instead of crossing through the Square. I also hear from theatre staff that the police rarely patrol Centennial Square at night (but are very present during the day) and the night time City Hall security guard only has an air horn for enforcement. He sits in his caged area with his back to the window. Can't blame him for a second.

So I am looking forward to hearing about how our elected reps are going to deal with that issue right in their backyard instead of debating a cheaper dental plan for themselves.

[victorian fan]

^
My sister and I had tickets for something at the McPherson. I became ill and couldn't accompany her. She wouldn't go alone. It's a shame that citizens are too frighted to go downtown, especially after dark.

[mat]

^
My sister and I had tickets for something at the McPherson. I became ill and couldn't accompany her. She wouldn't go alone. It's a shame that citizens are too frighted to go downtown, especially after dark.

Maybe something like the UVIC (and other campuses) plan of dedicated or volunteer security walkers to get concert goers from the venue to cars might be an idea - although with potentially hundreds of people heading out at one time that would be problematic.

[Sue Woods]

Maybe something like the UVIC (and other campuses) plan of dedicated or volunteer security walkers to get concert goers from the venue to cars might be an idea - although with potentially hundreds of people heading out at one time that would be problematic.

Thats a good idea but may be expensive and the Theatre Society is as stretched as all the other arts organizations these days. Maybe if the city paid for it.

I think the media needs to cover these muggging assaults so people will be more careful, more alert. It is crazy they don't as its a great 'bad news' story. And it seems to happen with enough regularity that its almost a public service issue.

[mat]

Isn't it ludicrous we are even discussing ideas to safely transfer concert goers from a venue to their cars? It's like we are surrendering our downtown to criminals; that should not be the mindset - if I go downtown for an evening concert or meal I want to take a walk afterwards, grab a coffee, drink or dessert, and know my family and friends will not become victims of a crime.

The problem is not only in the real account of crime in the downtown core (which is under-reported), it is the perception, and reality...

There is a real sense that the downtown core is a no go area, even during the day. Our neighbours will not let their teenage kids bus downtown without an adult to MEC for Christmas shopping. Would they get hurt? Not likely - but they would likely see people shooting up, smoking crack, begging and drunk on the street.

[Sue Woods]

There is a real sense that the downtown core is a no go area, even during the day. Our neighbours will not let their teenage kids bus downtown without an adult to MEC for Christmas shopping. Would they get hurt? Not likely - but they would likely see people shooting up, smoking crack, begging and drunk on the street.

At night I think it is especially wise to walk in a group based on my first hand knowledge of at least a dozen people who have been swarmed over the past few years while alone or in pairs. As a result I helped both my kids buy cars so they would not have to be waiting at bus stops after dark.


(Ps I think we are on the wrong thread. My fault - I started it)

[Sue Woods]

reposted

[mat]

It is called the "Guardian Angels". They came to Victoria to look but were told by our "leaders" that they were not needed.

I was afraid that would come up - The Guardian Angels are in my view no better than a citizen organized 'posse', bordering on a vigilante group. Their literature speaks of peaceful engagement towards secure communities, their actions say otherwise.

Other than the police, there should be no other organized security force - to allow that invites potential abuse, invasion of privacy, intimidation and a dilution of authority.

The example in my post was for escorts - simply applying the theory that 2 or more people are less likely to be a victim of a mugging, or attack.

[jklymak]

It is called the "Guardian Angels". They came to Victoria to look but were told by our "leaders" that they were not needed.

The media reports were that the Guardian Angels decided there wasn't enough crime to warrant foot patrols:

http://www.cbc.ca/ca.../23/angels.html

I'd be quite interested to hear the actual crime stats in Victoria. I'll bet a beer that violent crime is down over the last two decades.

[G-Man]

^ Please Victoria is about as dangerous as a mildly annoyed chiahuaua.

Just because you feel scared does not mean anyone is actually going to hurt you. Street crime happens in all cities but Victoria is a huge amount better than any other place its size. And by Victoria I mean a city of 360 000. People think that they are living in a small hamlet which shouldn ot have any crime but in actual fact we live in a midium sized city that has less crime than most of its North American comparators.

The idea of us needing the Guardian Angels is ludicrous.

[Sue Woods]

It is called the "Guardian Angels". They came to Victoria to look but were told by our "leaders" that they were not needed.

I edited this as the other was long and I guess wrong headed looking in the rear view mirror.

After a tour of our downtown the Guardian Angels coordinators also felt that we did not need a chapter here, so it was not just the police and city leaders. After our family member was a victim of crime I personally, in my emotional upsetness, thought the GA's might be a good idea - but I would of course prefer to see more beat police downtown instead.

[G-Man]

As much as I feel for your particular situation, one incident does not mean we have a crime problem.

[Sue Woods]

As much as I feel for your particular situation, one incident does not mean we have a crime problem.

There have been many incidents that I personally knw about. I wrote about it yesterday in a previous post on this thread.

This past weekend there were two murders, two people stabbed by a swarming near Hillside, and three young men I know were mugged at 8:30pm leaving macpherson theatre. Lots of muggings/swarmings that do not malke local news but happen.

But I also understand many people feel very opposed to the GAs.

[mat]

In reply to Ms Woods - I am somewhat horrified. As a community advocate, and politically active, all options should be explored when it comes to community security, but to legitimize an ad-hoc volunteer force to patrol streets is not progressive.

Private security guards need licensing (yes - there are problems with that), volunteer police, the reserve, go through months of training and are NEVER left to operate alone, even block watch, which I am a member - we go through a criminal background check.

To place volunteers, in uniform, as security patrols in my opinion is not a solution, and creates dangers. The laws covering 'citizen assistance - good samaritan' preclude any involvement with an organization, or current employment. eg. - an off duty police officer can, even should, professionally intervene in a crime situation and will be judged based on his/her current job and training, a nurse who medically assists a person in a shopping mall while off duty the same - an untrained citizen who helps in either case is judged far more leniently if a problem occurs (death or injury).

Vancouver went through this a few years back with Downtown Business Association 'advocates' (private security) patrolling the area around Granville and Hastings - the city spent a great deal of political capital, and actual tax money, to disassociate from any security initiative not provided by the police.

[aastra]

The McPherson Theatre has now hung signs on all interior doors telling patrons as they leave shows to use the lit streets instead of crossing through the Square.

That's a really sorry situation. No two ways about it.

This past weekend there were two murders, two people stabbed by a swarming near Hillside, and three young men I know were mugged at 8:30pm leaving macpherson theatre.

Victoria really does turn itself over to unseemly elements at night in a way that (for example) Vancouver doesn't. Methinks the low downtown population is the major reason for the difference. Downtown needs more residents and it needs more beat cops.

[mat]

That's a really sorry situation. No two ways about it.

Victoria really does turn itself over to unseemly elements at night in a way that (for example) Vancouver doesn't. Methinks the low downtown population is the major reason for the difference. Downtown needs more residents and it needs more beat cops.

aastra, you have a real point, so does G-man. There is real crime, the friends and family who have bad experiences downtown, and the news of others. The likelihood of actually being a victim, even at night, is still very low.

Downtown Victoria is very concentrated, a walk from the Johnson Street parkade, to say Broad St, or MEC, is like moving between worlds. Coming from the east along Pandora, as soon as you are past Cook, the grass boulevard is full of homeless huddled in blankets, hanging out in front of buildings - and I have seen fights over the panhandling spot at the traffic lights. Is this the welcome to Victoria we want visitors to see.

I agree that violent crime downtown is not the issue - but do I want to take overseas visitors, friends and family, downtown right now, no way.

[jklymak]

I agree that violent crime downtown is not the issue - but do I want to take overseas visitors, friends and family, downtown right now, no way.

When did you want to? Because I bet you a donut that crime was worse 5 years ago, 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. 100 years ago? This place was the wild west...

I'm very sorry to hear that folks are mugged. But I guarantee you that your odds of getting hit by a car are higher. Doesn't mean you should never cross the road (carefully) or drive your car, just as I don't think the occasional mugging should stop folks from going downtown.

[mat]

When did you want to? Because I bet you a donut that crime was worse 5 years ago, 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. 100 years ago? This place was the wild west...

I'm very sorry to hear that folks are mugged. But I guarantee you that your odds of getting hit by a car are higher. Doesn't mean you should never cross the road (carefully) or drive your car, just as I don't think the occasional mugging should stop folks from going downtown.

You re-stated the point - it is not actual crime, or even perception. It is trying to park near to a store, or meeting place, and having a pleasant experience downtown. Impossible (my opinion).

Pleasant means my family and friends will not witness a fight over a crack pipe near the Maritime Museum (saw that last week), or an obviously inebriated homeless woman vomit at our feet at a bus stop on Douglas, or seeing every week needles in the bushes, often on the sidewalks, near Canoe...this has to end.

[Sue Woods]

In reply to Ms Woods - I am somewhat horrified. As a community advocate, and politically active, all options should be explored when it comes to community security, but to legitimize an ad-hoc volunteer force to patrol streets is not progressive.

Private security guards need licensing (yes - there are problems with that), volunteer police, the reserve, go through months of training and are NEVER left to operate alone, even block watch, which I am a member - we go through a criminal background check.

Actually, to clarify, the GA's do have to get criminal record checks and be registerd with the police. But it could be, as you suggest, that the PR literature and the reality are at odds.

Anyway, I never gave downtown safety much thought before last year. But the solution would certainly be more people living downtown - and increased police presence.

[Caramia]

I doubt it is going to end any time soon. The only way that one portion of the population is going to have the luxury of not seeing another portion, is if we allow a red-light district to evolve separate from the tourist areas. We've had such great revitalization projects throughout downtown in the last boom years that blocks which were once derelict have now become trendy. Habitat for these issues has shrunk, yet the issues themselves have not.