Jump to content

      



























Photo

Times Colonist


  • Please log in to reply
621 replies to this topic

Poll: The Times Colonist: Will it survive? (1 member(s) have cast votes)

The Times Colonist: Will it survive?

  1. Yes - The TC will always be here as a daily paper (17 votes [20.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.99%

  2. Yes - but not a daily (26 votes [32.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.10%

  3. Yes - but Internet only (13 votes [16.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.05%

  4. No - it is no longer viable (25 votes [30.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.86%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#81 AnonAnnie2

AnonAnnie2
  • Member
  • 151 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:58 PM

Good point!

#82 mat

mat
  • Member
  • 2,070 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 06:26 PM

Its Thursday through Sunday ads that pay the freight on a daily. Ask any carrier what the heavy days are and it was the same when I was a carrier in 1958.


Editor and Publisher had a report not long ago (dammed if I can't find it right now) about the trends in readership for print dailies - nothing much had changed since the 1950's with Thursday to Sunday (well done Yod) still making the most ad revenue, and individual paper buy (readers who don't have subscriptions but buy in stores or from boxes).

This is why a number of papers in the US have already cut Monday to Wednesday prints.

From the NYT

4 Michigan Markets Will Lose Daily Newspapers, as Ailing Industry Tries to Cope

By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA
Published: March 23, 2009
Daily newspapers will become a thing of the past for readers in four Michigan markets, with issues being printed only three days a week in Flint, Saginaw and Bay City, and twice weekly in Ann Arbor. Advance Publications said it would close the 174-year-old Ann Arbor News in late July, and replace it with two new corporate entities: a primarily Web-based news operation, AnnArbor.com; and a printing company that will publish two days a week.

All 272 employees at The News, which has weekday circulation of 45,000, will be laid off and invited to apply for jobs at the two new companies. Their staff size has not been determined, but “there will be by far fewer positions,” said Laurel Champion, publisher of The Ann Arbor News.

AnnArbor.com will have some original reporting, and an emphasis on reader input and community forums. “This will be a new company built from the ground up,” said Steven Newhouse, chairman of Advance.net, the Internet arm of the company.

The changes at The Flint Journal, The Saginaw News and The Bay City Times will be less sweeping, reducing daily publication to Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays only. Executives said those days account for about 80 percent of advertising revenue. The papers, which have combined circulation of 141,000 on weekdays and 176,000 on Sundays, plan to lay off 35 percent of their employees.


The Argus, an Ontario paper, announced today it is cutting Mondays - is this a Canadian quirk?

#83 Hmmm

Hmmm
  • Banned
  • 58 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:06 PM

Yes, it's happening. Word is the official announcement will be made Thursday.

Cutting one day a week is a huge saving. The cost of newsprint alone is massive. I suspect this is just this beginning of a trend though....Some think the TC may be ultimately be reduced to a few papers a week.

So those of you who just love those weekly papers? You may just have your dream come true, after all. :)

#84 mat

mat
  • Member
  • 2,070 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 09:18 PM

Yes, it's happening. Word is the official announcement will be made Thursday.

Cutting one day a week is a huge saving. The cost of newsprint alone is massive. I suspect this is just this beginning of a trend though....Some think the TC may be ultimately be reduced to a few papers a week.

So those of you who just love those weekly papers? You may just have your dream come true, after all. :)


Thanks for the confirmation - I wonder how quickly Tuesday and Wednesday will be cut as well (not to put a negative spin on the paper you work for - and hopefully will continue to in the future).

Interestingly as the TC 0nline is actually getting better at listing and profiling local stories, rather than using fillers from other Canwest papers.

#85 Holden West

Holden West

    Va va voom!

  • Member
  • 9,058 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:25 PM

Back in the olden days the Colonist was Tue-Sun and the Times was Mon-Sat.


Shortly after the merger didn't they drop the Monday edition for a while and have a six-day paper? I have a vague memory of that.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#86 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:54 PM

Shortly after the merger didn't they drop the Monday edition for a while and have a six-day paper? I have a vague memory of that.


Before the merger they were both 6-days-a-week.

At some point they made just one Saturday edition paper, one that came out early (like the Colonist early delivery time) and one that came out later in the morning (for "afternoon" subscribers). They were the same thing, they did not require a separate press-run, just two delivery-truck runs. That was the last of afternoon delivery on Saturdays.

The papers merged in 1980, and went to just morning in 1983.

Any Victorian worth their salt knows that MONDAY MAGAZINE was named so as it came to be to fill the void of no Monday Colonist. But they soon found out that a weekly paper is gonna make money by selling ads geared to shoppers that will go out towards the end of the week, not on Monday or Tuesday. So the name stayed the same, but the publishing day moved to Thursday (OK, Wednesday if you know where to find it).

#87 Hmmm

Hmmm
  • Banned
  • 58 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:43 AM

To paraphrase the rock band, "It's the end of media in Victoria as we know it."

#88 Jacques Cadé

Jacques Cadé
  • Member
  • 932 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:04 AM

To paraphrase the rock band, "It's the end of media in Victoria as we know it."


But do you feel fine?

Seriously, though, I wonder why you say it's "the end". As others have pointed out, we've gone without a Monday paper before. Is management hinting that Tuesday and Wednesday might be dropped too?

And are other seven-day Canwest papers facing the same cuts? Inquiring minds want to know.

#89 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:16 AM

But do you feel fine?

Seriously, though, I wonder why you say it's "the end". As others have pointed out, we've gone without a Monday paper before. Is management hinting that Tuesday and Wednesday might be dropped too?

And are other seven-day Canwest papers facing the same cuts? Inquiring minds want to know.


There just aren't very many 7-days per week papers in NA. The TC was such a money-maker they moved it to 7-days to squeeze as much profit as they could out of it.

What a lot of people miss in this evolution is the loss of classified ad revenue. That was a VERY good profit center until craigslist etc. Three years ago, when I hired, I would always run a TC help-wanted ad. I do not do that anymore. I can and do advertise openings on craigslist, USEDVictoria, Canada Job Bank and the UVic job-board, all for free.

#90 yodsaker

yodsaker
  • Member
  • 1,280 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 11:10 AM

VicHockeyFan,
Agree, the T-C classifieds have become quite anemic, especially over the past several months.
The Monday paper is really anorexic now.
Why pay money for a tiny 3-day ad and extra for a tiny B&W pic when you can use Craigslist or UsedVictoria for free with several colour pics?
Absolutely correct about the lack of 7-day papers.
I carried the early morning (Gazette, now a CanWest paper) and afternoon papers (Star, now deceased) in Montreal as a kid.
Both were 6-day papers.

#91 VicHockeyFan

VicHockeyFan
  • Suspended User
  • 52,121 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:35 PM

Another HUGE source of display and classified revenue is automotive advertising. Well, the internet has taken lots of that away too. I guess my point is that the internet has not just changed our news-reading routine, it has also changed our ad-seeking routine.

#92 mat

mat
  • Member
  • 2,070 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:04 PM

Another HUGE source of display and classified revenue is automotive advertising. Well, the internet has taken lots of that away too. I guess my point is that the internet has not just changed our news-reading routine, it has also changed our ad-seeking routine.


In some ways the auto sector is a big point in the overall decline in advertising, but to say most New Car advertising is going to the internet does not show in the actual numbers. Where you are more correct VHF, and this does apply to autos more, is the used market.

The auto section of most papers used to be huge - articles, reviews then pages of classifieds and ads, usually on a set day. That was a big part of every daily papers' revenue. Now with websites like auto-trader buyers have a wealth of comparisons, and behind the scenes software, to judge any buy - why use a paper when online you can get an ad, and immediately see user reviews of the car and the seller?

New car ads are still splitting spend as before with newspaper ads still accounting for most cost (local dealers).

As for readership of newspapers in Canada - NAB has it's most recent numbers out today (note - this is industry driven so consider a bias)

#93 Hmmm

Hmmm
  • Banned
  • 58 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:32 PM

But do you feel fine?

Seriously, though, I wonder why you say it's "the end". As others have pointed out, we've gone without a Monday paper before. Is management hinting that Tuesday and Wednesday might be dropped too?

And are other seven-day Canwest papers facing the same cuts? Inquiring minds want to know.


No, I don't feel fine. Likely losing a job aside, newspaper writing is something I always wanted to do since I was 15 years old. I trained for it, I honestly worked hard to do the best I could at it... It has been a passion.

Sure, the TC isn't the greatest, but some of the writers are actually good and dedicated. And working for the Victoria daily hasn't been the greatest for us, either. I've worked in larger cities -- where the dailies were better -- and man, you get way more respect! It's difficult to do a fantastic job in a poor working environment, as I'm sure some of you have experienced in your own work situations. But I - and others at the TC - have tried. We like this city, and would like to work here. I'm not sure if that will be possible... the transition is going to be rough, with no assured future.

I don't know much more than you do about the future of the TC. But like you, I read what's on the web and other newspapers. It really sounds like the whole thing is tanking... I'm not sure if there will be a traditional news media like there used to be ever again.

But I guess ultimately, the public gets what it wants --and perhaps deserves. After all, the news media (and all media) is only a reflection of society -- it is created by us. It's a mirror.

You can chuckle at the demise of your city's newspaper and its TV stations. But I wonder what the alternative will be like... and whether you'll prefer it after all.

#94 mat

mat
  • Member
  • 2,070 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:57 PM

Hmmm (nice VV name by the way!)

There maybe some people on VV who relish the decline of 'traditional' print media but many VV members are either old/new journalists, receive and cherish news in all its forms, and use all mediums for business/organization/event advertising - the potential demise of Victoria's mainstream daily is a major issue in all our lives.

There is no need for you to apologize for the TC; we all have opinions and most of the issues deal with Canwest (at the root), not the actual paper.

As a journalist you should realize this is an historic moment - if you truly believe we are witnessing the end of daily print news in Victoria maybe it should be recorded. Start a journal - take pics, get quotes, record links - might be a decent blog post in the near future. (you may take that as the irony intended)

I truly feel for your situation - you are potentially losing not only a job, but the entire industry, and you maybe correct - we may all lose from the loss of concrete investigative journalism.

#95 Caramia

Caramia
  • Member
  • 3,835 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:04 PM

Laugh or cry, it is something to watch with some vigilance. My opinion is that any time there is a cultural shift, it is easy to loose ground on civil rights without noticing. The right to privacy is one of many battlegrounds in the mass colonization of cyberspace. The paparazzi r us!

I have faith that if people are willing to do in depth, excellent writing, especially on the local side, then consumers will be willing to pay for it. I certainly am. The internet is great for getting stuff out as soon as it happens. To get in-depth knowledge, I subscribe to magazines, some of them online. To get great comics, I subscribe or donate to the webcomics I like. I probably pay as much or more on media now as I did when I had the paper every day.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#96 Jacques Cadé

Jacques Cadé
  • Member
  • 932 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:17 PM

Hmmm, I'm sorry: I didn't mean to make light of your situation, or the newspaper's. For what it's worth, I'm a seven-day subscriber to the TC, and my morning isn't complete without the paper. In fact, I wish there was more of it. More local news, more columns, more arts coverage, and more room for freelance contributions in the Monitor/Islander.

My beef is with the ownership. For quite a while now, many daily papers – and community papers, for that matter – have been owned by men who've seen them as no different than any other kind of assembly-line product. My hope is that some new economic models will emerge from this crisis, ones that will knock those owners off their smug (and largely inherited) perches, and make dedicated and hard-working reporters feel valued again.

Believe me, I am rooting for you. I am rooting for the TC. But I am not rooting for Canwest.

#97 ptolomeus

ptolomeus
  • Member
  • 161 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:28 PM

I know it is maybe not the right place to write about it, but when I arrived here in Victoria and had for the first time this CT into my hand (and reading it:D), I was very perplexed at seeing the smearing around me and on me (part of my face :eek:) - I wasn't accustomed anymore to this printer's ink :rolleyes:

#98 LJ

LJ
  • Member
  • 12,702 posts

Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:32 PM

I am also a 7 day subscriber to the TC and would really miss it if they started reducing the number of days of publication.

My beef is with the circulation department. In the couple of years that I have been here I have missed deliveries over 40 times. I always call and they say they will extend my subscription for an extra day. Whoopee! I want my damn paper.

In Vancouver I had a seven day subscription for over 25 years. I can count on one hand the number of times I didn't get a paper. When I called they always sent someone out with the paper so that I would get it by noon.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#99 Hmmm

Hmmm
  • Banned
  • 58 posts

Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:00 AM

Great article on the newspaper industry in the Globe today:

http://www.theglobea...Story/TPComment

#100 AllseeingEye

AllseeingEye

    AllSeeingEye

  • Member
  • 6,543 posts

Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:58 AM

Hmm, having been downsized twice myself in the last decade I can empathize. Fortunately I've always landed on my feet, and always for the better. Hopefully you will too.

I do have to agree with LJ however; although a native Victorian I've lived twice in Vancouver, in the late 80's and fom 1997-2000.

One thing I especially enjoyed while I was there was the Vancouver Sun, which was and is IMO infinitely superior to the T-C on so many levels; inconsistent delivery aside (I agree there too), among other things that bugged the hell out of me re: the T-C were lack of good international and business coverage, IMO a really 'local', almost 'Mayberry RFD' approach - I fully understand that some folks want and like "regional and local" but come on: this is the capital city of the 3rd largest province in BC. Stories that I'd read in the Sun invariably reprinted sometimes a week or more later in the T-C. Huh?!

The final straw for me I suppose was the issue I picked up a year or two ago, with multiple spelling mistakes throughout the paper. Ugh.....

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users