621 replies to this topic

[yodsaker]

I get the T-C every morning but my interest declines rapidly after the front page, page 3, op-ed pages and the local biz page. Much of the rest is warmed over CanWest wire copy, inane "lifestyle" stuff featuring homes from Ottawa or Edmonton and muffin recipes.

[Hmmm]

Sure. But if you don't have the space, you have a choice. Try to compete with national, international news or go local. You're the local paper. What would you do, seeing you don't have the money to do both.

Typos? That's terrible, I agree. Consider this. Staffing is halved in the past 20 years. Try proofing way, way too many pages too fast. What's going to happen

[mat]

Sure. But if you don't have the space, you have a choice. Try to compete with national, international news or go local. You're the local paper. What would you do, seeing you don't have the money to do both.

Typos? That's terrible, I agree. Consider this. Staffing is halved in the past 20 years. Try proofing way, way too many pages too fast. What's going to happen

I guess one of the big questions is the role of a city (well regional) daily these days - should there be front page international news? Part of this problem is defining who the TC serves, and what news they require.

Have to laugh over the issue of spelling and grammatical problems - we used to rant over this but gave up, recognizing even the BBC and NYT are just as bad (maybe a TC section like the weekly NYT questioning the editor over typos and grammar would get some community involvement)

[Holden West]

I guess one of the big questions is the role of a city (well regional) daily these days - should there be front page international news? Part of this problem is defining who the TC serves, and what news they

The great thing about a daily is that you can flip through it and be reasonably assured you have had most every significant event around the block or around the world presented to you. Yes, along with the muffin recipes. There is power in having that synergy.

I fear that without a daily we will go off into our own little silos, feeding ourselves only with the data stream of our own personal obsession.

[yodsaker]

Maybe I sounded like I was peeing on the T-C but on balance I like it and don't want to see it go under. Their woes are more the fallout of CanWest's expansion and debt load. The T-C does some very, very good work like the native housing stories which were excellent by any standard. 1'30" TV clips simply don't match the detail of their reporting and they have some very good photogs for sure.
I dont worry too much about typos. I've been an editor and pick them up pretty quickly but I've never read any book or magazine that didn't have at least one and that includes top-quality publishers like Viking, Random House, S&S etc. Spell check is good but can certainly miss context.

[Hmmm]

Today the rumour was that the TC is now not cutting out an edition.

[AnonAnnie2]

Today the rumour was that the TC is now not cutting out an edition.

...not surprised this one didn't 'pan' out.

[AnonAnnie2]

Westcoaster.ca wrote this article...clearly a West Coast story and clearly the only one out with it.

Next day Times Colonist wrote this article.


This example is one of the reasons people are turning to online.

[Hmmm]

Looks to me like the reporter read the first article but did her own work. A "matcher" as they say. Not sure what your point is. This is pretty common practice in journalism.

It would be different, however, if she had plagarized.

[AnonAnnie2]

This example is one of the reasons people are turning to online.

The article originated with a pure online news source, the next day it appears elsewhere (in this case the Times Colonist) both in print and the online print version, yes a bit different but nothing 'new' than the original article.

I've already read it the day before at Westcoaster.ca as did a ton of other people on the island and around the globe.

Thats the first point the second is I've seen a few posts that refer to papers having a better capacity over untrained etc. online news providers. This clearly shows that is not always the case.

[Hmmm]

I think the Westcoaster article was very well done. That person who did it is a good writer and reporter.

There's still nothing wrong with another media outlet following a good story, though. You can be assured most Victorians don't read the Westcoaster. If I was the TC reporter's editor, I'd ask her to match their story for our readership.

There's exceptions to most rules, but I think the point is that high quality journalism takes both training -- either in J-school and/or on the job. The notion that anyone can report and that training is not needed — an idea that's gaining popularity in the Internet age — is what I take exception to. It's true anyone can type. But that's not the same as reporting.

[Rob Randall]

Looks to me like the reporter read the first article but did her own work. A "matcher" as they say. Not sure what your point is. This is pretty common practice in journalism.

This is true. Usually it is the TC itself being watched with Monday and the Vic News holding back to see how the big daily handles a story first. The goal is to uncover a possible alternative view the first reporter ignored or missed.

[AnonAnnie2]

I'm not taking issue with the TC reporter 'matching'.
I'm not taking issue with anything TC did...what I'm attempting to point out is its already been read somewhere else...online.
When it pops up a day later..similar in nature etc., its skipped over.
For example, I use a google service that collects news online for me...millions of people use the same service, as do thousands of people in Victoria.
Those stats are easy to get.
Be assured people in Victoria are reading Westcoaster online via various services.
Unfortunately all this points to ...why buy a paper?
(I do agree with the nostalgia, the Saturday morning, coffee 'n paper..the smell...although I liked the smell better when they used lead in the ink...I digress.
I like the nostalgia of horse and buggy to but I don't do that either!)
Some folks claimed that online news was not on par with papers...clearly it is in the case of Westcoaster.ca, and, there are many others like it.
Just say'n!

[Hmmm]

Very, very hard to follow your logic here. But I'm sure there is a thread somewhere....

[AnonAnnie2]

Very, very hard to follow your logic here. But I'm sure there is a thread somewhere....

You know us brilliant types...always hard to follow *shrugs*.



I'm not sure what you are not following so how 'bout we leave it at this;
online journalism is alive and well on Vancouver Island and the TC will remain as a paper however what days its delivered and what content it carries will be different.

[victorian fan]

I might be my age but I find the use of Cops instead of Police in headlines bothersome.

[AnonAnnie2]

I might be my age but I find the use of Cops instead of Police in headlines bothersome.

The term cheapens the publication and the profession..I agree and it might be my age too!

[mat]

You know us brilliant types...always hard to follow *shrugs*.



I'm not sure what you are not following so how 'bout we leave it at this;
online journalism is alive and well on Vancouver Island and the TC will remain as a paper however what days its delivered and what content it carries will be different.

As many have pointed out on this thread, and in blogs, articles and rants all over the printed and online world, there is an immediacy and also timelessness in online posts, but who can we trust, who is reporting?

The question now is how to pay for the journalism we need ever more, that is being reduced by cuts in all media worldwide; is Global Post the model? Who will pay for local, regional and central media that we can all link to, 'scrape' for posts to blogs and VV, and have direct access without passwords and logins from all our devices?

Online advertising, in its current form, will never come close to even paying for one decent journalist per publication.

The role of the amateur comes clear in this new paradigm - but would you trust 'anybody's' blog vs a Paul Krugman or Globe and Mail Business section? and, are we willing to pay for multiple (and costly) subscriptions for online content?

If it came to a choice between paying for NYT online content vs TC - NYT would win hands down. The private business goal of content provision fails ultimately on individual payment systems: there is only a small amount per person available for individual subscriptions (and they will want an ad free environment)

No private media company can compete with free online, taxpayer or foundation/donation supported content, from the likes of CBC, BBC or NPR. Most online users will lament the loss of free TC (canwest access) if that ever happens, but quickly get used to CBC and other sources.

This is the dilemma Canwest and many others face. My own opinion is they have created this problem (media as a whole) themselves. One would compete against another - the one who offered free online content got the traffic, and the hope of ad revenue, which has failed to sustain operations.

It has been stated previously, and worth mentioning again. We are witnessing a paradigm shift in media provision - not in modules (as the internet is already here), but in credible content.

[AnonAnnie2]

What Mat said.


Here is what I think 'they' need to do.

'They' need to bring in the experts...the paper and online readers.

Then 'they' need to forget the business model 'they' had and get those online and paper readers to help them 'invent' a new one.

(this 'event' or 'events' would need to utilize both the internet and face-to-face at the same time)

Anyone remember Equinox magazine? Back in the day I was a subscriber..I was invited to be a part of a volunteer editorial 'board'. There were several of us from all over Canada. Our input was valid, important and it helped the publication through a few rough years...although its no long available. hmmmmmm

[Ms. B. Havin]

I've been involved in online work for 6 years. FWIW, I find the Times-Colonist's approach re. "matching" pretty appalling. Why? Because the T-C does not give link-credit to its source - in the online world, that's criminal. When I read the T-C article, I'm not aware that there is another source for this. Yet clearly, Westcoaster was there first. All it takes is for T-C to include a link to Westcoaster. By not giving that "link love," T-C betrays its 1.0 mentality - and writes its own death sentence.

Westcoaster is 2.0, Times-Colonist 1.0. T-C will die, Westcoaster will not. In the new age, you live by your links, and T-C ain't got none.