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West Shore Express Passenger Ferry | Royal Bay to Victoria


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#221 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 02:10 AM

From the limited info posted here on VV only, I know this first report was a pre-feasibility study. The new one is a full study. Seems prudent to me to spend a little time to determine if its worth spending a bunch more time before committing to this boondoggle.


Looking at a map and checking Google traffic is about all that’s required here.

#222 max.bravo

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 02:51 AM

As dumb as this idea is, pretty smart for crd to ask the province for a study since the project in Horgans riding.

Calling it now- no chance in hell this thing is profitable or breaks even. Ferries always seem to require government subsidy to operate.

#223 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 02:56 AM

the gondola to the parking lot should be profitable.

most gondolas are.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 May 2021 - 02:57 AM.

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#224 Mike K.

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 05:49 AM

I like the concept of a boat service like this, although I realize it’s not viable.

What I don’t like is the gondola. Imagine if it breaks. Now what?

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#225 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 05:51 AM

What I don’t like is the gondola. Imagine if it breaks. Now what?

 

broken gondolas are rare on the island.  it's more a localized squamish issue i believe.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 May 2021 - 05:51 AM.

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#226 Mike K.

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 05:52 AM

Yes, you might be right.

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#227 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 06:00 AM

maybe install a pair of heliports for gondola backup.  if the gondola breaks you could have a fleet of helicopters shuttle people from the parking lot to the ferry berth.



#228 Mike K.

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 06:07 AM

Can’t we build a back up parking lot next to the ferry terminal for when the gondola breaks?

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#229 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 06:19 AM

Can’t we build a back up parking lot next to the ferry terminal for when the gondola breaks?

 

in all seriousness the gondola idea is beause Martin does not want a parking lot on the waterfront.  so he wants a parking lot far away from the ferry berth.  if that makes any sense.  somehow it does in his mind.

 

maybe the alternative is to dig a canal so the ferry berth is well inland, near the ferry parking lot.   :confused:

 

 

maybe have the ferry dock and parking lot here in View Royal.  then the ferry can go in the Gorge.

 

screenshot-www.google.com-2021.05.15-10_20_15.png

 

 


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 May 2021 - 06:22 AM.


#230 Mike K.

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 06:20 AM

Where’s the parking lot going to be on the Victoria side?
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#231 Rob Randall

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 06:51 AM

I spent a couple of minutes on Google maps zooming in on any region that had a little commuter ferry. I then Googled what people said about them. They all seem to be money pits, requiring millions in government funding to keep them afloat. Bottom line, without big tourist revenue it must be heavily subsidized.

 

The Lynn-Boston, MA route looks comparable to ours.

 

Running a ferry, of course, is quite expensive. According to Goddard, the [Boston]-Lynn ferry cost more than $700,000 to operate, plus an additional $1,400 per trip.

Ferries rarely pay for themselves, Driscoll said. The exception is Salem, which attracts scores of visitors who, typically, don’t pay for subsidized commuter rail passes.

“That model doesn’t work if you’re just talking about commuters ... and that’s been the struggle with other places,” she said. “It’s kind of been a unique model for us because of the robust tourist industry.”

 

 

https://www.bostongl...38TI/story.html


“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#232 Rex Waverly

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 12:10 PM

I spent a couple of minutes on Google maps zooming in on any region that had a little commuter ferry. I then Googled what people said about them. They all seem to be money pits, requiring millions in government funding to keep them afloat. Bottom line, without big tourist revenue it must be heavily subsidized.

 

The Lynn-Boston, MA route looks comparable to ours.

 

 

https://www.bostongl...38TI/story.html

 

To be fair, transit pretty much always runs at a substantial loss and needs to be heavily subsidized. 

 

If you look at the proposed ferry as a transit option, not a for-profit business option, it only really needs to not lose any more money per user trip than a bus to be a feasible transit option.  



#233 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 01:01 PM

it'll lose 10 or 20x what a bus loses.


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#234 Rob Randall

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 02:07 PM

To be fair, transit pretty much always runs at a substantial loss and needs to be heavily subsidized. 

 

That's fine, but some ferry proponents are suggesting this thing will turn a profit. I'm saying that's impossible and we should stop saying otherwise.

 

But if I turn on my magic time machine and convince the Butcharts to build their garden at the Colwood gravel pit instead of the Brentwood gravel pit, now you've got the million potential passenger trips that would make a difference. Otherwise it needs millions in government money. Any profitable ferry needs full-fare tourists to break even.


Edited by Rob Randall, 15 May 2021 - 02:13 PM.

“I mean I just don’t understand the big Texas part, like maybe he’s from Texas? I want to know the back story.”


#235 Mike K.

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 04:30 PM

It is impossible to turn a profit. It’ll require massive subsidies.

Look at BC Ferries. The big routes keep the rest of the operation afloat and it still requires government dollars.

Everything about boating is expensive and staffing will also be expensive. I love the idea but it will be a drag on taxes for a very small amount of people who could take it, and during rough weather the conditions will make the trip a second or third option for commuters.
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#236 Nparker

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Posted 15 May 2021 - 05:04 PM

Maybe it can make a number of extended trips to bring pedestrians for year-round fun at Picnic Point.


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#237 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 05:07 AM

Colwood Mayor Rob Martin hit the water for a video aimed at convincing the provincial government to study the idea of a commuter ferry between Royal Bay and downtown Victoria.

 

 

The three-minute video was launched on YouTube this week.

 

https://www.timescol...edia-1.24324478

 

 

VIDEO:   youtube.com/watch?v=wiyy05disSo

 

Lisa Helps actually talks some sense on this video.  


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 May 2021 - 05:11 AM.

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#238 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 12:07 PM

Think Royal Bay, V2V for a commuting solution

 

Imagine moving up to 242 ferry passengers from Royal Bay to downtown Victoria at a time.

 

Three high-speed return trips daily could move more than 700 passengers each way, economically and efficiently.

 

What an amazing impact this could have on the daily one- or two-hour Colwood crawl.

 

For years, the Seabus has moved thousands of passengers across Burrard Inlet daily. It is more important than ever to those growing numbers of passengers.

 

Further, imagine if B.C. Ferries and the provincial government invested $4.8 million for the V2V Empress catamaran, and built a temporary walk-on dock at Royal Bay.

 

Coupled with a Colwood, Langford and Sooke shuttle bus service to Royal Bay, it would provide urgently needed mass transportation, conveniently and economically.

 

And imagine the positive impact this would have on our all-important carbon footprint!

 

The obvious positive impact of reducing motor vehicle congestion, making it possible for cyclists and pedestrians, to safely navigate Victoria streets would be immense.

 

It is, however, silly of me to think provincial and local politicians who spend hundreds of millions on making it easier to move more vehicles into the already overcrowded city, would see the benefits of such a simple, economical and readily available solution.

 

Stephen Nielsen
Victoria

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...g-youth-4841750

 

 

The Colwood Crawl is not one or two hours.

 

700 passengers each way would have a ~ 1.5% reduction of highway traffic.  Imagine that.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 December 2021 - 12:07 PM.


#239 Nparker

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 12:13 PM

...And imagine the positive impact this would have on our all-important carbon footprint...

This only works because the V2V catamaran is fueled entirely by wishes and dreams.


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#240 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 12:19 PM

Coupled with a Colwood, Langford and Sooke shuttle bus service to Royal Bay, it would provide urgently needed mass transportation, conveniently and economically.

 

Imagine waiting for a bus outside your home.  Taking it to Royal Bay.  Waiting for the ferry.  Unloading downtown and walking to work at MoHealth.  Sounds like a 60-75 minute trip.  That you can do in the car for 30-45 minutes.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 December 2021 - 12:20 PM.

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