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West Shore Express Passenger Ferry | Royal Bay to Victoria


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#81 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:04 AM

I'm thinking more of a regional transit situation, and, as per your point, much of the passenger traffic may indeed be from downtown going to the Westshore to work.

 

there is no bottleneck or delays on that route at that time though.

 

for any ferry to be effective it has to be better faster and more frequent and convenient than the bus or car.  i really cannot see that.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 September 2020 - 07:04 AM.

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#82 Spy Black

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:09 AM

You may be right in your assessment, which would lend veracity as to why a ferry isn't currently being thought of as a serious undertaking, and why the ferry that we had (albeit a small one, and focused on a singular group of workers) was canceled, and also why no direct commercial replacement has made an appearance.

 

Transit does indeed become painful at some point ... just ask anybody in Vancouver who has to take a couple of buses to get to a Skytrain station, and then do the reverse at the end of the day. Add on a 15 minute walk to and from your bus stop, and the whole thing becomes an hour plus (or longer) undertaking, with lots of exposure to weather in the process.

Likely the reason condos and houses in Vancouver usually see a 15-20% bump in asking price if they're within walking distance of a SkyTrain station.



#83 johnk2

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 09:45 AM

IMO its a ridiculous idea. Boats expensive to build and maintain. Crossing open water exposed to the sea. Wind comes up, boat pitches and rolls and a whole lot of people show up to work covered in vomit. That will surely build a customer base. Winters will be a treat for sure. There will be days the boats simply can't  be put in service due to weather. Each boat would require several highly-trained crew who must be paid good wages whereas an LRT requires just one operator. Oh, and are the boats solar-powered or just regular old diesel fuel?

Build an LRT line!


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#84 tanker

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 04:28 PM

This thing has as much of a chance of happening as commuter rail. That is a 0% chance.

#85 Mike K.

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 04:33 PM

Never underestimate the power of government monies or industry subsidies.

Rail is definitely a money pit and because it no longer goes downtown the E&N corridor is dead for trains. But a ferry just might materialize, especially if Royal Bay incorporates a much larger port facility that could charge a levy to subsidize the service.

Right now nothing is off the table. Think very, very big picture when broaching this issue and don’t be intimated by grandiose ideas you might come up with, because the people who will be investing many millions of dollars into a vessel supply warehouse on Sooke Road at Veterans Memorial aren’t about to launch a fleet of 18 wheelers and send them down congested roads, if you catch my drift.

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#86 kxl

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:02 PM

There’ll be a demand from Royal BC Museum employees who will need a direct commuting option between locations
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#87 max.bravo

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 08:31 PM

Aerial tramway is a better idea than a ferry in this location. And that's saying something...


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#88 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 05:44 AM

Colwood and Langford are seeing much of the growth in the Capital Regional District. A commuter ferry could provide a gateway to those communities, a way for people from Victoria to get there for jobs, for shopping, and even for enjoying the wondrous views offered by Colwood’s Royal Bay area.

 

 

It would be the local equivalent of the SeaBus between Vancouver and North Vancouver, although our ride would last three times as long and as a result would be more costly.

 

https://www.timescol...ible-1.24207076

 

 

no it wouldn't.  it would be nothing like it whatsoever in terms of linking population centres etc.   

 

200,000+ live on vancouver's north shore.

 

and the seabus connects them to a downtown peninsula with 65,000 residents and 150,000 workers.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 September 2020 - 05:48 AM.


#89 Mike K.

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 05:49 AM

So a 45 minute sailing?

I do have to say, that it is getting rather comical how we’ve spent the last 25 years trying to reinvent the wheel when all we had to do was install an interchange at McKenzie. The next step is a bridge over Tillicum and we’re set for 10 years.

Think about it. LRT plans and discussion in mid-90s. Commuter rail in the 00s, then more LRT plans in the 00s and into the 10s, then West Shore ferry when the navy ferry shut down, then commuter rail, some more commuter rail, and now West Shore ferry.

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#90 Mike K.

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 05:59 AM

Regarding the population stats, the Seabus runs every 15 minutes during the day. What if ours ran every 30 minutes?

There’s 100,000 people on the West Shore, or will be soon, anyways.

The problem with Royal Bay for a service like this is its location. It’s counterintuitive to go further from where you are to catch a ferry downtown. So if you’re in downtown Langford you’re not going to be inclined to head for Royal Bay. Had the terminal been near Juan de Fuca Rec the optics would be better.

But what are we going to do over the long term? Either you build a bridge across Esquimalt Harbour or you need to run either rail or a boat. There’s no other option. By 2030 the West Shore will have 130,000 people, conservatively. That’s like the population of Saanich being restricted to the 17 to access all points south of the muni.

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#91 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 06:06 AM

as the west shore expands why won't the population be able to find what they need in west shore?  we do not even have big events like canucks white caps lions big concerts that see the seabus full for 120-150 events a year.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 September 2020 - 06:11 AM.


#92 Mike K.

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 06:12 AM

Oh for sure, that’s coming. But will it precede a boat? I don’t know.

Once COVID is over, the downtown employment make-up will never be the same but millions of square feet of office space won’t just transition to Langford and Colwood in ten years, right? Downtown will still remain a huge employment base albeit one that will no longer get 100% of the white collar jobs like it has traditionally.

There are mega-projects in the works for Langford and I just don’t think people recognize the magnitude of what that means over the long term. The West Shore is making a run for Victoria’s turf in a big way and they’ll do it through private investment that allows much faster pivoting and adaptation. I hate to be speaking in tongues but there’s so much more going on than is apparent today to the public at large.

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#93 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 01:10 AM

“All 13 mayors have written letters of support, as well as the CRD,” he said. “Because we live on an island, there’s a finite amount of land. I really believe that this is the best option.”




that’s the kind of statement I’d expect from an 8-year-old. has he ever looked at a map?




https://www.vicnews....od-to-victoria/

 

 

 

if vancouver island were a country, it would rank #156 out of 194 listed here for most population density.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 03 October 2020 - 01:18 AM.


#94 Spy Black

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:04 AM

It would be interesting if we could get hard stats on the current occupancy of downtown Victoria commercial office space.

My little 3 story office building accommodated 13 different tenants, with 4 of those being retail, and 9 being office space.

 

From April to now, in my building alone, the landlord (and the COV for taxes, local business for lunch eats, parking, etc) has lost 2 of the retail leases, and 4 of the office tenants. 

So essentially half the building spaces now are vacant, with very little (or no) expectation that they will be re-occupied anytime soon.

Based on what I saw over the months and years walking around the building, that's a permanent loss to downtown of between 28-35 workers-shoppers-parkers-lunch customers, etc.

 

And that's just in my singular, small, three story retail/office mix building - one of hundreds of similar spaces in the downtown core.

You can easily see the loss of retail (eg. empty storefronts), but the story of permanently vacated office space, and the permanent loss of those workers in the downtown core is one that I believe is yet to be told in the COV.

 

I no longer think "devastated" is an overstatement when describing the current state, and future outlook for the downtown core.

Many will posit that it will all be fine in a couple or a few years, and things downtown will balance back out ... but I'm not sure I believe such optimism any longer.

The entire concept of "going downtown" will be forever altered post COVID, and technology, along with peoples expectations of how businesses are run (including where they're located, or if they're physical or virtual) will focus far more strongly on the remote/online methodology of conducting business.

 

I expect food and beverage will survive to some degree, simply based on human nature and the inherent need to socialize ... but outside of food and beverage, i don't see much in the downtown core to be positive about ... and I'm down there every day, day in and day out - and have 40 solid years of working downtown "memories" to inform my comments above.

 

All of the above to reflect on the fact that we may not even need a ferry, or to further worry about commuting, as the region develops on the Westshore while Victoria languishes in the same way that many North American "downtowns" shrivel up and die, while the "new" outlying areas take over as the place people consider when they think of business, food and beverage, shopping, etc.


Edited by Spy Black, 04 October 2020 - 07:06 AM.


#95 Nparker

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:09 AM

...i don't see much in the downtown core to be positive about ... 

Add to this a local government that seems to be intent on destroying downtown-adjacent green spaces like Beacon Hill and Central Park and I too feel like downtown is at best on life support.



#96 max.bravo

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:12 AM

Agree completely SpyBlack. I quite like working from home (and not commuting downtown) and if my Ministry forces me to return, honestly I’ll just quit.

The incentive to go downtown is all but gone for me. Except of course for the odd restaurant excursion. I don’t expect I’ll ever be a regular downtown commuter worker ever again.

#97 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:14 AM

we have the harbour downtown that’s not going away so that’s a plus over most other downtowns.

and tourism will come back. if the city/province/country are smart about it, office > housing conversions could be made easier.

#98 Nparker

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:29 AM

Tourism is the only thing downtown really has going for it, and again the CoV government does little to encourage this with their anti-cruise ship stance and encouraging homelessness and illegal activities. There are lots of beautiful places to visit in the world. Victoria needs to stand out among them to entice tourists.


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#99 Mike K.

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:32 AM

The census will come out next year, and it’s going to show an explosion in population on the West Shore the likes we’ve never seen. My estimate is 90,000 people, up from 77,500.

There will be a need to move those people around if we can’t expand the highways, or if politicians don’t allow them to be expanded. It’s either rail, or boat infrastructure. Take your pick.

“But we already have a rail line!” Yes, we also already have the strait and harbours.

“But bad weather will mean there will be cancellations on some days!” Yes, but there will be collisions between trains and cars, and service interruptions from blocked lines and emergencies, too.

“But there aren’t enough people nor is the demand high enough!” The West Shore is on-track to eclipse the largest municipality on Vancouver Island, Saanich, by 2030, and the City of Victoria by 2022. It has only two roads in and out of the rest of the region, one a highway that historically has been extremely congested, the other a two lane goat trail.

It’s going to be sea transport, or rail, but not both. And we already have the largest ferry system in the world headquartered here with more than enough experience to operate the service and unlike rail, we have multiple opportunities to launch, grow and alter services without much infrastructure investment.

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#100 Rob Randall

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:41 AM

Nope, proper bus rapid transit. No ferry or rail scheme can touch it for value, year-round reliability and convenience. 

 

BUS RAPID TRANSIT

because a ferry service...

 

...is dead in the water



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