310 replies to this topic

[kitty surprise]

Tourism is the only thing downtown really has going for it, and again the CoV government does little to encourage this with their anti-cruise ship stance and encouraging homelessness and illegal activities.

And tourism in general is already shifting to a "new normal" with increased focus on less typical/trendy destinations, longer stays, and big emphasis on safety. If we can't keep up with the evolving industry, we'll be in big trouble. Our social issues that have made national headlines this year did us no favors. The ferry could at least be used as a tourism draw, if our tourist numbers recover enough to support that idea.

[Mike K.]

Buses suck, though, everybody at BC Ferries and CN Rail knows that. Even BC Transit knows that, and that’s why they’ve been trying to convince us to build them a train for 30 years (don’t forget the first LRT concept was flushed out in the mid-90s that the subsequent one built on).

[Mike K.]

I also get the feeling there is a “eff it, it’s the West Shore, give those yokels speedy buses to shut ‘em up” mentality permeating through discussions on infrastructure.

Victoria and the core don’t care for the West Shore, and the mentality towards it is not unlike the mentality towards Vic West and Esquimalt in the 80s-mid 00s.

[Nparker]

...Victoria and the core don’t care for the West Shore...

There is little evidence that Victoria even cares for itself anymore. If the CoV were a person, it would be on suicide watch.

[Victoria Watcher]

true.

make it one of those buses that looks like a tram.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 07:54 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

I also get the feeling there is a “eff it, it’s the West Shore, give those yokels speedy buses to shut ‘em up” mentality permeating through discussions on infrastructure.

Victoria and the core don’t care for the West Shore, and the mentality towards it is not unlike the mentality towards Vic West and Esquimalt in the 80s-mid 00s.

the problem is trains and boats are not any quicker and indeed they are much less frequent. worst of all worlds.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 07:57 AM.

[Mike K.]

View Royal and Saanich don’t want to improve roads, BC Transit has an absurdly expensive train vision connecting downtown
Victoria only via major roads that can’t afford capacity reductions, the E&N goes nowhere between points A & B and no longer stops in downtown Victoria.

What’s left for the West Shore that nobody can stand in their way to oppose or destroy by having too many chefs in the kitchen? Sea-based infrastructure. They’ll circumvent everything standing in their way and not have to deal with anybody’s whims.

[Sparky]

Monorail.

[Victoria Watcher]

How about develop the oceanfront properly somewhere out there? Then they can have their own “harbour”.

Langford waterfront would be great!

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 08:11 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Monorail.

honestly a gondola would make more sense than a ferry.

doesn’t Portland have a gondola? New York does.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 08:13 AM.

[Mike K.]

the problem is trains and boats are not any quicker and indeed they are much less frequent. worst of all worlds.

Rail would require an insane storage and maintenance investment, for sure, and it’s not malleable once the route has been chosen.

The boat infrastructure is already there downtown and at CFB Esquimalt, and it wouldn’t take much to build a terminal at Royal Bay which is a deep sea port.

The frequency thing isn’t a big deal.

[Mike K.]

honestly a gondola would make more sense than a ferry.

doesn’t Portland have a gondola? New York does.

New York has ferries. Lots of them.

[Victoria Watcher]

frequency speaks to overall speed/time. if you must wait 15 or 20 minutes for the next boat you might as well take the bus that goes every 4 minutes. so YES frequency is important in such a short run.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 08:22 AM.

[Rob Randall]

Venice, Italy has a water-based rapid transit system. It's amazing. Not the gondolas you see in movies, that's strictly for tourists. Vaporettos are small open boats shorter than a standard transit bus. But unsuitable for open ocean.

[Mike K.]

frequency speaks to overall speed/time. if you must wait 15 minutes for the next boat you might as well take the bus that goes every 4 minutes. so YES frequency is important.

To sit on a congested highway for 45 minutes, then transfer to a local bus route which you just missed because the bus was six minutes late?

That’s the problem we deal with today. The transit system is unreliable, buses miss connections, some buses don’t run, etc. It’s a mess.

But that boat is going to depart at 4:40, the next one at 5:00, and it’ll arrive at Royal Bay at 5:05 and 5:25, with buses waiting for 5:10 and 5:30 departures. The sailing times are so precise that the system is fool proof, like with Seabus and NYC’s ferries.

[Victoria Watcher]

why not have guaranteed 5-minute frequency or less on the 50? at that frequency you don’t bother with schedules you just go grab it. that’s easy. your “connecting bus” always meets it.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 08:32 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

But that boat is going to depart at 4:40, the next one at 5:00, and it’ll arrive at Royal Bay at 5:05 and 5:25, with buses waiting for 5:10 and 5:30 departures. The sailing times are so precise that the system is fool proof, like with Seabus and NYC’s ferries.

except the 25 days a year it does not run due to weather. that makes it all the more frustrating.

[Mike K.]

You grab it and sit on the highway, then miss your connection which comes once every 30 or 45 minutes, or once every hour. So does it matter if your bus out of downtown leaves every 5 minutes?

That’s why transit is such a flop in our region. It’s so unreliable as to be the last resort for anyone with any other choice.

[Victoria Watcher]

nobody sits on the highway anymore. traffic moves due to the new interchange plus we have more bus lanes.

transit is no more a flop here than any similar sized city.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 October 2020 - 08:33 AM.

[Mike K.]

except the 25 days a year it does not run due to weather. that makes it all the more frustrating.

How often does the Coho cancel its runs? Or the Clipper? On a windy day the choice is yours. Ride the boat or take an alternate mode of travel.