2177 replies to this topic

[gumgum]

Langford's on another planet man.

[captain highliner]

This whole dispute/deal with the natives could be about a lot more than just this cave. I spoke at length with a friend yesterday who is working to build a regional coalition around urban containment and ALR protection. According to him, Bear Mountain, Langford and the Province are looking to secure a right of way for a new highway connection to bypass the Malahat, which would run through Bear mountain and across Todd inlet to Bamberton.

The native's side is divided between two camps on this issue. The cheifs are more mercenary in their approach, and are just out to get the best deal possible in exchange for their political support. The other side are a coalition of environmentally oriented first nations land administrators, environmentalists and social activists, etc., who are opposed to any new development on Skirt Mountain. They are launching a petition and grassroots campaign to call for the halt of Bear Mountain and the Ministry of Transportation and Highways' expansion plans.

It remains to be seen whether such a coalition could gain a foothold in the western comunities. There's an opportunity here to put forward a progressive urban agenda based on the mutually reinforcing principles of firm urban containment, investment in transportation alternatives, and urban densification in core areas. For me, Bear Mountain symbolises everything wrong about North American land use. I fully intend to participate in this coalition in order to get the idea out there that these things are connected, i.e., ultra restrictive development policies in the core and the free for all expansionist attitude in Landford.

If you want more information contact mailto:seacrd@gmail.com

[captain highliner]

Here's an email I received today:
Dear friend,

You may not be aware of the proposed Savory Road Connector being proposed for Langford in the vicinity of Skirt Mountain. Please pass this information on to your networks as it certainly moves in the wrong direction from the standpoint of urban containment and intensification.

Social Environmental Alliance



SOME DISTURBING INFORMATION ABOUT THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR:

>parcels of Crown Land on Spaet Mountain were reportedly transferred to Western Forest Products as part of a 'land swap', then sold to LGB9, the holding company of the Bear Mountain Development Group ('LGB9' signifies CEO Len Barrie's initials)
>on 14 May 2002, Langford rezoned the property from GB1 (Greenbelt 1) to a new Comprehensive Development 6 - Bear Mountain Zone, which Mayor Stew Young described as "a good balance for Langford"
>'Phase 2' expansion of the Bear Mountain development is contigent on construction of a new Trans-Canada Highway connector near Florence Lake
>in January 2006, the federal Liberal party pledged $5-million for the Connector as part of its 'Made-in-BC' election platform; Liberal MP for Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca Keith Martin said at the time: "It's a great opportunity to open up that side of the highway."
>CEO Len Barrie campaigned in the federal election for a "business-friendly government" that would fund the Connector
>Barrie has requested that the provincial government cover 1/4 of the $30-million Connector cost, amounting to a public sudsidy for his private Whistler
>CRD chair Alan Lowe has refused to take a position on this matter because of "a direct pecuniary conflict of interest" related to architectural work on Spaet Mountain
>former NHL hockey players Russ and Geoff Courtnell have allegedly pulled out of Bear Mountain because of concern over the project's direction
>the Connector may be part of a larger provincial plan to solve the Malahat transportation woes by cutting a road through the Highlands
>in September 2006, the Bear Mountain Development Group formally banned the Songhees Lands Manager from the property
>in November 2006, the BC Archeology Branch granted the developer permission to destroy a sacred cave near the summit "in order to protect it"
>on November 2006, Bear Mountain project manager Les Bjola, Barrie's right-hand man, instigated a hundred construction workers, threatened with the loss of employment, into a confrontation with a small group of Aboriginals protecting the cave
>Justine Bratten, director of the BC Archeology Branch, reportedly told a member of the Tsartlip nation that Aboriginals have no claim to Spaet Mountain because their rights were extinguished with the Douglas Treaties, despite oral testimony suggesting Gov. Douglas agreed to the protection of sacred sites
>the proposed Savory Road Connector would climb up a steep ravine above Florence Lake, disturbing the watershed, paving over Douglas Fir, Garry Oak, and Arbutus forest, and damaging sacred Aboriginal sites, including 'Guardian Rocks' and a place called 'Transformation Rock'


PROTECT GREEN SPACE
END SPRAWL
STOP THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR

>>please forward this message widely and inform your networks as events unfold<<

[LeedsUsWhere?]

Ok,

Without a doubt, this is the most over the top stunt so far from the Langfraudians.

The Cave Casino!

These guys are bold and beautiful but this takes the cake!

Save whats left of the cave, put a cultural and historically significant structure there and add value to what is fast becoming a vast wasteland void of anything remotely significant to Canadians, Vancouver Islanders or First nations.

Whats next? Carved face sculptures of Stew, Len, and Les somewhere out of the rock on Bear Mountain. They could rename it Mt. Flushmore in honor of the privatised sewage and the American way of doing business....

These guys gotta get a grip....

[Ms. B. Havin]

There's an opportunity here to put forward a progressive urban agenda based on the mutually reinforcing principles of firm urban containment, investment in transportation alternatives, and urban densification in core areas. For me, Bear Mountain symbolises everything wrong about North American land use. I fully intend to participate in this coalition in order to get the idea out there that these things are connected, i.e., ultra restrictive development policies in the core and the free for all expansionist attitude in Landford.

I'm just getting around to reading the nov.29 copy of Monday Magazine, and noticed a featured letter to the editor, by Ben Isitt, where he responds to Monday's earlier article, "Cave Calamity" (Nov.22). Isitt wrote:

Elected officials at all levels of government must work to place strict limits on any further Bear Mountain expansion. Construction employment can be provided through urban densification, without destroying cultural heritage sites and high-elevation Douglas Fir forest.

Nice to see him endorsing urban densification -- I still wonder why he's so opposed to highrises downtown, though. He spoke strongly against The Falls at the public hearing.

There's also another article in the T-C today on Bear Mtn/ cave etc.: [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=cce34364-0626-4020-9c79-d072b388d77b&k=65310:862cc]Langford pushes for funding to head off artifact disputes[/url:862cc].

[aastra]

So he's opposed to urban densification in urban areas but he thinks it's a great idea in suburban areas?

[G-Man]

No I think he is more of a Stick to the neighbourhood plan kind of guy. If the plan said build all 50 storey towers he wouls that is what has to be built.

[Mike K.]

Didn't Isitt's election platform promise to ban new buildings above 4-storeys in downtown Victoria?

With respect to the malahat expansion, it's necessary one way or another. I believe the best alternative is to run a bridge to N. Saanich but Langford et al realize such a route would be detrimental to Langford. Hence we have a strong push for the route through the Highlands and Langford which will be more detrimental to the environment but more beneficial to Langford. Never for a second did I think the N Saanich bridge would happen and the "option #2" through Langford only cemented my gut feeling.

[captain highliner]

Well, call me a nutty granola head, but here's my Malahat alternative: intercity commuter rail to Duncan or even Nanaimo, combined with photo radar on the 'hat. I say screw Len and the boys getting a massivly subsidised Bear Mountain Parkway at my, and the environment's expense.

Visionary leadership doesn't mean more of the status quo.

BTW, is it a big problem that Ben Isitt chose to activate on this issue? I find that one of the best things about democracy is that it forces you to interact with people who you may not agree with all the time. If we're serrious about building an alternative urban agenda for growth on South V.I., we're probably going to have to build a broad coalition with people, mostly on the left, who are not your typical pro developer people. But then again, most of us are not pro-all-developers either.

[m0nkyman]

With the explosive growth up island, ghetto-izing Victoria south of the Malahat is stupid and shortsighted.

I want the Malahat replaced. What would make complete sense is for us to spend the coin and double up the construction to run true commuter rail up to Duncan along the same right of way as a new highway.

Get it done, because the Malahat needs to be replaced, but do it in a way that will reduce how much we actually need it.

[Mike K.]

The Bear Mountain parkway is going down regardless of the new highway expansion. It's a seperate project and according to the agreement with Langford Bear Mountain must have the parkway in place in order to continue development so as to alleviate congestion on Millstream. Should the Malahat expansion go through Langford, it will connect with Millstream not the BM Parkway (I notice the email posted above states the Parkway "may" be used for the new highway, but Millstream makes much more sense especially with Veterans Memorial).

Anyways, we need an alternative route up-island. Continuing to rely on a single route in and out of town will eventually spell trouble.

[Mike K.]

Social Environmental Alliance

SOME DISTURBING INFORMATION ABOUT THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR:

>parcels of Crown Land on Spaet Mountain were reportedly transferred to Western Forest Products as part of a 'land swap', then sold to LGB9, the holding company of the Bear Mountain Development Group ('LGB9' signifies CEO Len Barrie's initials)
>on 14 May 2002, Langford rezoned the property from GB1 (Greenbelt 1) to a new Comprehensive Development 6 - Bear Mountain Zone, which Mayor Stew Young described as "a good balance for Langford"
>'Phase 2' expansion of the Bear Mountain development is contigent on construction of a new Trans-Canada Highway connector near Florence Lake
>in January 2006, the federal Liberal party pledged $5-million for the Connector as part of its 'Made-in-BC' election platform; Liberal MP for Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca Keith Martin said at the time: "It's a great opportunity to open up that side of the highway."
>CEO Len Barrie campaigned in the federal election for a "business-friendly government" that would fund the Connector
>Barrie has requested that the provincial government cover 1/4 of the $30-million Connector cost, amounting to a public sudsidy for his private Whistler
>CRD chair Alan Lowe has refused to take a position on this matter because of "a direct pecuniary conflict of interest" related to architectural work on Spaet Mountain
>former NHL hockey players Russ and Geoff Courtnell have allegedly pulled out of Bear Mountain because of concern over the project's direction
>the Connector may be part of a larger provincial plan to solve the Malahat transportation woes by cutting a road through the Highlands
>in September 2006, the Bear Mountain Development Group formally banned the Songhees Lands Manager from the property
>in November 2006, the BC Archeology Branch granted the developer permission to destroy a sacred cave near the summit "in order to protect it"
>on November 2006, Bear Mountain project manager Les Bjola, Barrie's right-hand man, instigated a hundred construction workers, threatened with the loss of employment, into a confrontation with a small group of Aboriginals protecting the cave
>Justine Bratten, director of the BC Archeology Branch, reportedly told a member of the Tsartlip nation that Aboriginals have no claim to Spaet Mountain because their rights were extinguished with the Douglas Treaties, despite oral testimony suggesting Gov. Douglas agreed to the protection of sacred sites
>the proposed Savory Road Connector would climb up a steep ravine above Florence Lake, disturbing the watershed, paving over Douglas Fir, Garry Oak, and Arbutus forest, and damaging sacred Aboriginal sites, including 'Guardian Rocks' and a place called 'Transformation Rock'

PROTECT GREEN SPACE
END SPRAWL
STOP THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR

The folks behind the Social Environmental Alliance should clarify what they mean by the points they raise. Some of whats written in this email appears to be fear-mongering intended to stir up controversy where none may exist.

To suggest "former NHL hockey players Russ and Geoff Courtnell have allegedly pulled out of Bear Mountain because of concern over the project's direction" is a component of "DISTURBING INFORMATION ABOUT THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR" (the tagline of the email) implies that the Courtnall's are no longer part of the project because of the Savory Road Connector or, as a stretch, because of environmental issues in general. What's the real deal with the Courtnall's?

I don't mean to come across too hard here but this style of communication is similar to what NIMBYs turn to when in opposition to change in their neighbourhoods. Fear-mongering and coincidental "disturbing information" may not result in the intended desire to raise awareness to a particular issue.

[m0nkyman]

Is the 'Social Environmental Alliance" anything more than Ben Isitt and his circle of friends?

[Mike K.]

I was hoping that this movement carried more weight, but reading through the lines of the Alliance's mailout I'm starting to think that this is yet another fear campaign/publicity stunt.

To send out generalized statements that may or may not have anything to do with the real issue at hand -- but can be conveniently manipulated to come across as though they do -- is a disservice to the community.

[LeedsUsWhere?]

I am not familiar with the group either.

But one thing I will say....

the only " fear campaign/publicity stunts" that are "unprofessional and in turn a disservice to the community" are the ones undertaken by Len, Les and their puppet Stew. (See Casino Cave)

:wink:

[Mike K.]

I am not familiar with the group either.

But one thing I will say....

the only " fear campaign/publicity stunts" that are "unprofessional and in turn a disservice to the community" are the ones undertaken by Len, Les and their puppet Stew. (See Casino Cave)

:wink:

The "only?" So Isitt's campaign is somehow more righteous because...?

[LeedsUsWhere?]

No.

But I have yet to see any "fear" mongering or " Publicity stunts " unless we refer to the ones perpetuated by the Bear Mountain proprietors and their politicians.

Moreover, I don't believe I even typed the word "righteous" or a derivative there of, so please pull up!

[Mike K.]

Isitt and his group were quoted in yesterday's paper with regards to the current BM situation. That's publicity.

The email Isitt sent out titled "SOME DISTURBING INFORMATION ABOUT THE SAVORY ROAD CONNECTOR" contains information that appears more coincidental than factual with regards to the connector. Stating that the information is "disturbing," and thus making it appear as though it is pointing towards the development of the connector, is fear-mongering/sensationalism.

I never said you wrote the word righteous, but I did question why you did not consider Isitt's campaign as manipulative in light of comments made in previous posts.

[LeedsUsWhere?]

Ok I am gonna make a small attempt to inject some reality into this discourse.

Isitt and pals show up and get a staged event and mearly gets mentioned in a news story that is a year old now. That is hardly publicity..... The thinly veiled attempt at acquiring a casino license through this gong show is publicity!

Quote from newsclip: Ben Isitt of the Social Environmental Alliance called the casino proposal a crass and obnoxious attempt by the landowners to shift focus away from the cave's protection.

You suggest that Isitt is being manipulative. The mention of Isitt's comment harbors no manipulation but rather an opinion that may even be accurate.

Your own quotes on this page suggest that the Casino pitch brokered by the RCMP between Stew, Len, Les and Cheif Sam is unrealistic. You cast doubt on the story in your own words on these pages.

Are you not owning up to the manipulation by and of the media by the players when you say:


[quote]However, the media may be delibirately stirring up controversy. The following lines make me very suspicious of this article:

"Nothing has been agreed to," he said.

Brewer said a purported copy of the deal, which was e-mailed to the Times Colonist, is actually a list of "discussion items" from one of the first meetings. The list makes several references to the development of a casino.

"I recognize some of those from the talks," he said. "Those were obviously just items that were thrown out for discussion."[/quote]

The media did not start this story the developers did ( whoe emailed it to the TC?).

The media is not deliberately stirring up controversy the developers are deliberately turning the event into a casino application through the manipulation of the media.

OK, so quit calling the kettle black and be proud of the developers success in pulling of this outragoues publicity stunt that included:

1) Fear mongering: though the threat of loss jobs if they can't blow up the cave and build stuff.

2) Media manipulation: by starting the story a year ago with the hockey player saying " its my land I can blow up a cave and put a hotel up if I want to!" then now teaming up with the natives on a joint venture after passing the peace pipe

3) To reach desired outcome: A casino license that would have otherwise been difficult to obtain.
[/quote]

[Mike K.]

Yeah, I did say the media was being manipulative. I also believe that the BM Trio are hiding something. And to top if off, I think Isitt is not being forthcoming with the facts he presented in his email regarding the Savory Road Connector.

...you very succinctly reiterated how I feel about all three parties by mentioning my previous posts, so what is your point exactly? Are you saying it's alright to question the media and BM, but it's not alright to question Isitt? That's my interpretation.