15 replies to this topic

[Village Dolt]

Apr 13, 2009

A COOK STREET VILLAGE PUB IS LOBBYING VICTORIA CITY COUNCIL TO CHANGE A BY-LAW, ALLOWING FOR INCREASED SEATING CAPACITY.

CO-OWNER OF THE BEAGLE PUB BART REED TELLS 'A' NEWS THE CITY NEEDS TO RELAX PARKING REGULATIONS IN ORDER TO ALLOW FOR INCREASED CAPACITY, OTHERWISE IF THEY COMPLY THEY WILL BE HURT FINANCIALLY.

"It would allow us to continue running the pub as it has for 22 years." REED SAYS.

THE PUB CURRENTLY HAS A SEATING CAPACITY OF 85, BUT OFTEN SEES OVER 100 PEOPLE ON A REGULAR BASIS.

THE CITY CURRENTLY ASKS PUBS TO HAVE ONE PARKING STALL PER 3 PATRONS.

REED IS ASKING FOR A 1 TO 7 RATIO SO HE CAN CONTINUE HOSTING CUSTOMERS AT CURRENT NUMBERS, WITHOUT BREAKING A BY-LAW.

- ANDREA BOYES

[Mike K.]

I've moved this thread into the economy section

[Bob Fugger]

As a fellow publican, I understand how a poor parking infrastructure/situation negatively affects business. Every compliment I hear is, "Wow, great place. The parking sucks, though." Thank God for being located in a residential neighbourhood and correspondiong the walk up traffic.

As a regular patron of the Beagle, I have to say that this capricious enforcement of seating capacity by bylaw officers/liquor inspectors is total BS. Here you have a business that has been allowed to operate overcapacity for over twenty years. During that time, a business comes to rely on that income - especially when it is given the implication that non-compliance is tolerated. Twenty-two years, Ma! Why now - in the middle of a debilitating recession, to boot - enforce an antiquated and misguided bylaw? Surely possession is 9/10ths in this case. It can't all of the sudden be a problem. Most likely to appease some pissy NIMBYists who don't like cars parked in front of their house? I'm sure that many homeowners in CSV have bought there within the last twenty years. What did they think would happen, living near a pub and commercial centre?

That's the case for our place - I can bet that they sit in their windows with 9 digits already dialed, their hand shaking in anticipation to hit the 10th digit when a car that they don't recognize parks there. And the irony? On both sides of the street, the residential properites are TOWNHOUSE COMPLEXES WITH THEIR OWN DAMNED PARKING LOT!!

As for tying seating capacity to parking, how backwards is that? The main reason I frequent the Beagle (more often than my own establishment, I might add) is that I can stumble home afterwards. Over the 10 months that I have lived in the village, the regulars I recognize at the Beagle I also recognize from around the neighbourhood. That's the whole point of a neighbourhood pub: wander in, have a few pops, chat up your neighbours, stumble home. I hope that people will write to Mayor and Council demanding that this good corporate citizen be given the benefit of common sense when deliberating their fate.

Here's the link to the Mayor & Council contact webform: http://www.victoria....Council Contact


Something needs to change here.

[Koru]

I'm with bob on the points many of the immediate residents have purchased within the last 20 years in fact I'd argue for a fact many of the immediate residents along Oxford and McKenzie have purchased in the last 10 years! - how do I know? I grew up in the village, today I still know some of the shop keepers, I've seen the village transform over the years from rising star to bubbi roses from the oxford arms to the beagle. I had newspaper routes all throughout the neighbourhood and at one point growing up I could tell you the names of the owners and/or renters of just about every house in the immediate region. Now when I walk or drive through the change in even the last 5 years the recognizable faces from my childhood (now that I live elsewhere) are no longer there. The new residents have moved in knowing full well of the pub. When I turned 19 the beagle was my first legal pint, when I was a kid and the pool room was a little cafe as a family we'd go all the time - - I honestly can't recall any problems with the Beagle/Oxford Arms over the years, at one point living a block away. The drunks that wrecked havoc were usually from downtown. - I think for the city not to allow this is plain ridiculous and will further show the current councils lack of foresight and community understanding for I think that the beagle is probably one of the true neighbourhood pubs in this town with a bulk of the patrons within walking/stumbling distance to the establishment

[Caramia]

I grew up in the village too on Sutlej St. You are about 10 years younger than I am I think, but I share the sense that the village changed a lot over my lifetime - most of those changes were for the better - getting a neighbourhood pub was definitely for the better. The last time I lived in the village I was a non drinker, but I still appreciate the pub as a place to drop in and visit with neighbours, or a place to tell my roommates to move their after work drinks with the guys on cranky days. Village hearts have an organic quality. It is good when there is some flexibility. Restrictions were put in when the community was feeling fearful about having a pub there at all. Now that the pub has had 20 years to prove itself a positive in the community, we can stop being so protective. I hope the Beagle gets its bylaw change.

[victorian fan]

I was there a few times shortly after it opened. It wasn't busy then. Glad to hear it's doing so well.

[gumgum]

^I won't even bother on Canucks night. You'll never find a seat.

The food is pretty bad there, but I'm glad to have it as my local. Great service and it's such a happy and relaxed atmosphere.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I also hope the Beagle gets its 1 to 7 ratio approved.

[Village Dolt]

Heyo again!

Just been listening to Bart Reed this am on CFAX as he let everyone know of the upcoming City Council meeting, this Thursday eve at 7:30pm where he hopes like hell that Council will approve his increased parking petition.

Sez Bart "We'll have a free shuttle from the pub to City Hall, which will leave Thursday evening at 6:45pm."

Other ear-perking info which Bart imparted was the total cost to him for maintaining this legal matter... $150,000 and counting!! He also divulged, probably to no business-owner's surprise, that the Pub's property tax regularly comes in at $50,000! B.C. = Bring Cash. Hyup.....

GO BART GO!!

[Village Dolt]

Hi agin,

Just got back with my Oxfood and glad to see sufficient media coverage, Eh News, doing remote outside the Pub, with all expected bodies at the Council meeting tonight, adorned in bright orange tee's with their public support of Bart's Beagle.

Thanks each and everyone of you who are going to continue your support in Council chambers tonight. The Beagle Bus will shortly be departing, at 6:45pm. Hope some forward-thinkers bring along a good portion of the Pub fare for these councillors to snack on, whilst determining its capacity future. Could make the diff, yanevaknow!

I'll post again as soon as I have the results, either tonight or tomorrow.

I SUPPORT THE BEAGLE!

[Village Dolt]

Cook Street pub wins increase in seating
By Bill Cleverley, Times Colonist May 29, 2009 2:05 AM


More people will soon be able to belly up to the bar legally in the Beagle Pub following a Victoria council decision last night. But co-owner Bart Reed didn't get as many licensed seats as he wanted. In the end, council opted for a compromise suggested by Mayor Dean Fortin that will increase the licensed capacity to 138 seats from 85. Reed had sought 161 seats.

"What it means is ... we're going to have lineups every Friday night and I have got to ask why," Reed said following the decision.

The application now goes to the Liquor Control and Licensing Branch for final approval. Neighbours, patrons and workers, many dressed in orange "Support the Beagle Pub" T-shirts, packed the council chambers and lined up to support Reed in his application. Even former premier Dan Miller, a local resident, spoke in favour. Reed told councillors he was only asking to formalize what has been the status quo for the last 23 years. "I'm not adding any seats. Nothing is changing," he said.

Reed pointed to a 2,500-name petition supporting his application, noting he also has the backing of the Cook Street Village Merchants Association and that more than 2,000 people indicated on the Beagle Facebook page that they support the proposal.

Three people spoke against the application. Both councillors Lynn Hunter and Charlayne Thornton-Joe said they had received e-mails from people saying they felt intimidated about showing up at the public hearing given the huge show of support expected. Cited twice over the past five years for over-serving in his Cook Street pub, Reed was taking advantage of a one-time-only option to apply to the liquor branch for an increase in capacity.

To do that, he needed city approval to lower his parking ratio. Generally, pubs have a ratio of one parking space for every three patrons -- Reed wanted to reduce that to 1:7.

While licensed for only 85 patrons, the pub was built to hold far more and safety regulations allow for 145 customers inside and 18 outside. Reed pointed to a parking study he commissioned that says there's always at least one available spot in his lot. He noted he's regularly exceeded his licensed capacity for years with no complaints from patrons or neighbours. :)

[Bob Fugger]

This is this is the right move from Council. A lot of places often operate at or slightly over capacity - provided the establishment hasn't exceeded it's fire occupancy and the place is orderly (no fights, no evidence of overserving) most liquor inspectors will cut a slightly overpacked house some slack.

That being said, word on the street is that Bart brought this up on himself by bragging how he had been fined/temporarily shut down, but ultimately he kept going about his business without changing anything. However, because of the attention, I can guarantee that he will no not get the benefit of running over by even one seat for quite awhile.

All we need to do now is defeat the evil CAVE people in Fernwood Village by getting rid of Residential Parking on Gladstone Avenue. You know, the parking spots in front of the townhouse complexes on on BOTH sides of the street that have ample off-street/on-site parking?

[Caramia]

I don't get this at all. People shouldn't be driving to and from pubs. We have laws against that. Why do we then require parking?

[Nparker]

...People shouldn't be driving to and from pubs... Why do we then require parking?

Perhaps because this pub also serves food and maybe a certain number of parking spots are required for a restaurant? I am probably totally off-base, but one never knows with our weird and wonderful bylaws.

[Caramia]

Maybe! Funny how bylaws trump actual parking usage studies. I'd love to believe that all those cars belong to designated drivers, but I live in Victoria, so I know they aren't.

Drunk driving is no joke - and still really pervasive in my experience. This may seem mean but if you've got your car, parking at the pub SHOULD suck. Perhaps bartenders should give people parking passes with their bills if there is no alcohol on the tab. Everyone else should pay enough to park that it hurts - a deterrent level fee.

[Nparker]

...parking at the pub SHOULD suck. Perhaps bartenders should give people parking passes with their bills if there is no alcohol on the tab. Everyone else should pay enough to park that it hurts - a deterrent level fee.

I agree with you entirely Caramia. Parking should be at a minimum at drinking establishments.