3387 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

But Garry Sam says some members of his tribe are taking it...

 

But the Songhees support the idea of passenger rail between Victoria and Langford, he said, noting that some members of his nation take water taxis to the West Shore to avoid the Trans-Canada Highway commute.

 

I know, it must be an unregulated or illegal one.   There is no harm a bunch of guys getting together and taking a boat, I guess.  If it's a commercial operation that's a bit more grey.    

[LJ]

Well if it works why not turn it into a business and make some money out of it?

[Victoria Watcher]

Presumably all the regulations etc. would make it not profitable.

[Victoria Watcher]

Another waste of taxpayer money

 

 

So, now another proposed rail restoration, this time only as far as Langford.

 

This will still cost at least tens of millions of dollars – if not hundreds of millions, given the typical public sector cost-overruns – and what does it provide? Only an alternative to the bus routes for which the Trans-Canada is supposedly being rebuilt!

 

If the rail is built, will the dedicated bus lanes just end up as another waste of taxpayers’ money, probably compounded by an inability of the rail line to recover its operating costs, let alone repay the debt incurred to construct it?

 

We will already be in the hole for the “feasibility study” (how much of the $18 million fund will be used on this?)

 

Is it just another pie-in-the-sky dream, like the last proposal for an $800 million boondoggle?

 

That money could be profitably used to lease for a decade some of the extra buses that BC Transit is surely going to provide us with for the new bus lanes – or has it no plans to increase service? We haven’t heard anything!

 

Let’s not forget, your governments are almost broke, with mounting debt that our children and grandchildren will have to pay – whether federal or provincial.

 

 

 

Roger Love

Saanich

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...nation-11621557

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 December 2025 - 06:39 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Mayors signed the E&N death certificate

 

One has to wonder if the mayors of the Westshore jumped the gun, signing a “reconciliation document” to re-route the defunct rail line around the Esquimalt reserve lands. This was more about a pre-election PR stunt.

Did the mayors consult with any qualified rail design engineers first?

The entire railbed requires renewal, now with, apparently, a new alignment for several kilometres, significantly adding to the estimated high costs.

The new alignment makes no design sense. Railway curves are long and gentle.

The realignment, assumed at Halliwell Road to Admirals Road, is far from wide enough to accommodate the necessary gentle rail curves, defeating the efficiency of transit.

It’s clear these mayors did not consult with experts, given that constraint.

It’s also assumed that the rails will proceed along Admirals to the current crossing at Naden base. Again, significant new, extra costs would be borne by this new route, along with permanent disruption to traffic. No Pollyanish salesmanship can avoid this shortsighted decision.

It’s safe to say none of these mayors will be around to bear the consequences of this “promise”, due to the extended timelines of any rail project that may or may not occur.

The E&N is a dead relic of another time and era. This agreement is the final nail in that coffin, rather than a step closer. Come to terms with that!

 

Dan Andrews

Colwood

 

 

https://www.timescol...-seats-11626406

 

 

 

Rail service won’t work, try electric buses

 

Here we go again. Another committee formed under the reconciliation

corridor initiative to consider a commuter rail route.As a person with more than 50 years of railroad experience, I shake my head.

To have a successful commuter ­service, one has to provide a frequent bidirectional service.

A single track does not work with one train in each direction per day.

There would need to be track upgrades plus proposed realignments (which should also include the provision of passing tracks), a rolling stock maintenance and train control facility, plus the terminal stations.

Terminal stations would need to be integrated into the existing B.C. Transit network to ensure riders have a smooth transition from the train to their workplaces or homes.

Also, what type of rolling stock is to be considered?

Not only the quantity, but to satisfy environmental issues, presumably ­consideration will also be given to include the electrification of the route.

To make the system attractive, the fares would have to be reasonably priced. This requirement alone would result in the reality of an annual subsidy being necessary to operate and to ensure that staffing and the routine maintenance costs are adequately covered.

Initial costs to provide a good system would run into billions of dollars. To sum up, my message is “Sorry, but that boat has sailed.”

My recommendation is that the ­cheapest solution to the commuting ­problem is for the track to be converted into a roadway for the exclusive use of express electric-powered buses that can also be used in B.C. Transit system ­outside of the rush hours.

 

Mick Rix

Saanich

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 December 2025 - 06:53 PM.

[Mike K.]

The new alignment makes no design sense. Railway curves are long and gentle.

Modern LRT curves can be extremely tight, like 90 or more degrees across 70 meters from beginning of the curve to the end.

[Victoria Watcher]

It depends. Some modern streetcars can pull that off. But they are relatively short vehicles, and make that turn at less than 5kmh. Proper LRT that make significant speed, or are longer, can not turn that tight at all.


And as the writer above states at least part or most of this route must be double-tracked. No real LRT runs on one track.

[Victoria Watcher]

Now, the West Coast Express is a single track 70km long, runs 5 trains and parks all 5 of them abreast at each end. Overnight away from town, and all day downtown. And only carries 7,000 per day.

Politicians are so ridiculous.

[Victoria Watcher]

The orange/white and blue cars are the West Coast Express on mid-day layover at Canada Place.

 

 

 

^ We going to build such a yard in both Songhees and Langford?

[Victoria Watcher]

Politicians are so ridiculous.

 

 

 

And again, it's 70km long.   Takes 75 minutes.

 

Lanford Station (Station Road) to City Hall is 31 minutes on the #95 bus, off-peak.  42 minutes peak.   This will get a bit smaller with the work widening the highway at the bridges and the bus-on-shoulder work.

 

https://www2.gov.bc....bus-on-shoulder

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 03:23 AM.

[Mike K.]

It depends. Some modern streetcars can pull that off. But they are relatively short vehicles, and make that turn at less than 5kmh. Proper LRT that make significant speed, or are longer, can not turn that tight at all.


And as the writer above states at least part or most of this route must be double-tracked. No real LRT runs on one track.

Totally they can. They just slow down at those curves and the cars are standard size. Have a look at Edinburgh.

[Victoria Watcher]

Totally they can. They just slow down at those curves and the cars are standard size.

 

WHAT do you mean by standard size?

 

The West Coast Express uses 8 full-length passeger cars.  Go Train uses 6 to 12.  144 or 180 passengers per car, so in some cases over 1,000 people per train.  THEY cannot at all turn on the radius you describe.

 

The new Toronto street cars are very sharp turners, but they only take 70 seated passengers per tram.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 04:59 AM.

[Mike K.]

You’re describing heavy rail when they said it would not be that. We’re talking about lrt.

[Victoria Watcher]

You’re describing heavy rail when they said it would not be that. We’re talking about lrt.

 

How many people do you want to bring in each day?

 

An LRT like the Calgary C-train or the Toronto new LRT (over $13 billion cost) would need at least 30 or 40 train sets for the volume you want to carry.  YOU CAN'T FIT THAT MANY ON THE TRACK between Langford and downtown!

 

 

 

 

So for maybe $18 billion you can build what you want.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 05:11 AM.

[Mike K.]

Oh, don’t you worry. This is about as likely of materializing as Esquimalt getting its own police force

[Victoria Watcher]

You’re describing heavy rail when they said it would not be that. We’re talking about lrt.

 

But to not electrify and to use the existing track, and meet accessibility, I think your options for rolling stock are very limited.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 05:21 AM.

[Mike K.]

You can run whatever you like on that rail, including modern LRT that can also run along extremely tight turns. Edinburgh’s LRT is same gauge as the train system.

[Victoria Watcher]

You can run whatever you like on that rail, including modern LRT that can also run along extremely tight turns. Edinburgh’s LRT is same gauge as the train system.

 

It's electrified.

 

 

 

• Waterloo Region LRVs (Flexity Freedom): A 2013 deal with Metrolinx for 14 vehicles was estimated at $92.4 million in total, an average of $6.6 million per vehicle. This price covered the vehicles themselves, plus spare parts, tools, equipment, and contingencies.

 

And you will need at least 30 of those.  So that's $200M before you start adding the electricity, twinning the rail, and adding stations and servicing and dwell areas.  You will need to buy probably $2 or $3 billion in extra land.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 05:35 AM.

[Mike K.]

It could run on unicorn smiles for all I care, since it’s never happening.

[Victoria Watcher]

There is nothing wrong with a strong bus program.

 

Imagine how popular #95 would be, if it ran every 4 minutes at peak, and when you arrived at Langford or Colwood exchanges there was always a bus there.  Jump on, even if it waits 3 or 4 minutes to leave.  You warm up, you are out of the rain and you pull out your device to work/pass the time.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 December 2025 - 05:57 AM.