3103 replies to this topic

[Cats4Hire]

1) Buses and trains are cramped and uncomfortable.

2) You have to watch your stuff.

3) Women get assaulted on them and so do men occasionally

4) You get the creepy weird guy that talks to you.

5) You stop. at. every. stop.

6) It's hot and noisy

7) It never goes where you actually want to go or when you want to go. You have to wait and drive or walk anyway.

8) I can't stop on the way and pick something up on the way home or whatever

 

Those are just off the top of my head. There's actually way more reasons why you'll never see me on a bus or train. You wouldn't pick up a bunch of random hitchhikers but when you ride the bus that's essentially what you've got.

1) Personally I find some of the newer seats quite comfortable although I'll give you cramped.

2) I'm talking about for daily commuting so all you really should have is a brief case/backpack and/or lunch kit. I just sit my backpack on my lap and cross my arms over it, others do that or rest their feet on it.

3) Women (and men) get assaulted on sidewalks so do you never use them? How about restaurants, clubs, public restrooms, office buildings. I ride the bus pretty much for 5+ years and I think I've heard of 4 or 5 cases of assault happening and never seen any personally.

4) Never had anyone talk to me on the bus aside from friends or a quick "is this seat taken?". I don't even wear earbuds/headphones on the bus which I imagine would eliminate this entirely. 

5) unless no one wants off or no one is there. I have a very hard time believing once bus lanes are in or if there was rail it would be slower than sitting in traffic even if someone wants on/off at every stop.

6) The only times I find it noisy is when a large group of kids is on which usually is midday going on some kind of class trip. Not at 8 AM or 5 PM. Hot depends on the driver. Some blast the AC and I actually feel like I need a jacket in July while others have no AC or very low.

7) I wouldn't say "never". If you want to go to the UVic bookstore the terminus is right outside. Same with Uptown, Mayfair, Hillside, both Camosuns, pretty much anywhere along Douglas (if you're going somewhere on Douglas you probably have much less walking via bus than if you parked somewhere), Quadra, Shellbourne, etc. Once they have the bus tracking thing here waiting won't be much of an issue. It's about 5 minutes walking from my house to the nearest 30/31 stop. I know not everyone is as lucky but I consider 5-15 minute walking perfectly reasonable (plus it's good to get out and get some exercise) 

8) Depends on what. I get off the 50/30/31 at Uptown all the time and run into Walmart and grab stuff on the way home. I also stay on the 4 longer (if I'm taking that from Camosun) if I need to make a stop at Chapters or the library. 

[PraiseKek]

Glad it works for you but for most people myself included the bus is terrible. 

1) Personally I find some of the newer seats quite comfortable although I'll give you cramped.

2) I'm talking about for daily commuting so all you really should have is a brief case/backpack and/or lunch kit. I just sit my backpack on my lap and cross my arms over it, others do that or rest their feet on it.

3) Women (and men) get assaulted on sidewalks so do you never use them? How about restaurants, clubs, public restrooms, office buildings. I ride the bus pretty much for 5+ years and I think I've heard of 4 or 5 cases of assault happening and never seen any personally.

4) Never had anyone talk to me on the bus aside from friends or a quick "is this seat taken?". I don't even wear earbuds/headphones on the bus which I imagine would eliminate this entirely. 

5) unless no one wants off or no one is there. I have a very hard time believing once bus lanes are in or if there was rail it would be slower than sitting in traffic even if someone wants on/off at every stop.

6) The only times I find it noisy is when a large group of kids is on which usually is midday going on some kind of class trip. Not at 8 AM or 5 PM. Hot depends on the driver. Some blast the AC and I actually feel like I need a jacket in July while others have no AC or very low.

7) I wouldn't say "never". If you want to go to the UVic bookstore the terminus is right outside. Same with Uptown, Mayfair, Hillside, both Camosuns, pretty much anywhere along Douglas (if you're going somewhere on Douglas you probably have much less walking via bus than if you parked somewhere), Quadra, Shellbourne, etc. Once they have the bus tracking thing here waiting won't be much of an issue. It's about 5 minutes walking from my house to the nearest 30/31 stop. I know not everyone is as lucky but I consider 5-15 minute walking perfectly reasonable (plus it's good to get out and get some exercise) 

8) Depends on what. I get off the 50/30/31 at Uptown all the time and run into Walmart and grab stuff on the way home. I also stay on the 4 longer (if I'm taking that from Camosun) if I need to make a stop at Chapters or the library. 

[malahatdrive]

South islands population is over 520,000
CRD 383,000
CVRD 83,000
Nanaimo 105,000

Total: 571,000

[malahatdrive]

South Island Population Projections

 

CRD 470,000 by 2038

CVRD 101,000 by 2038

Nanaimo 138,000 by 2041

 

Total estimate: 709,000 in approximately 20 years.

[RFS]

South Island Population Projections

CRD 470,000 by 2038
CVRD 101,000 by 2038
Nanaimo 138,000 by 2041

Total estimate: 709,000 in approximately 20 years.

Hey, that is pretty impressive and is almost getting into major league sports territory (Winnipeg is approx 700k) the whole south island from Victoria to Nanaimo should start thinking more like a region (some better highways would be a good start) the distance from Victoria to Nanaimo is just over 100km which in relative terms aint that bad

[Mike K.]

CRD includes all of the islands, and Nanaimo RD includes communities as far north as Qualicum. Removing those we're at approximately 540k. I had no idea CVRD was that populated! Well I’ll be...

[Cassidy]

....the distance from Victoria to Nanaimo is just over 100km which in relative terms aint that bad

Seattle from Everett to Tacoma is about 100 clicks ... and I think most locals consider that stretch relatively "local" ... at least as far as sports and special events go.

 

If you're driving on I5, it's pretty much just one big city ... and one big road.

[Mike K.]

With nearly 4 million people.

[AllseeingEye]

CRD includes all of the islands, and Nanaimo RD includes communities as far north as Qualicum. Removing those we're at approximately 540k. I had no idea CVRD was that populated! Well I’ll be...

Not to mention the region all the way to and including Port Renfrew....

 

So really in the context of that larger region, the population of "Greater Victoria" is still infinitesimal compared to most cities even by Canadian standards. Put another way assuming the population projection for the CRD above is remotely accurate, by 2038 - 20 years from now - we'll still be significantly smaller than Surrey is today. I dearly love trains having been across this country 5x West to East and East to West, but there ain't no way no how that rail will fly, pardon the expression, as a viable commuter option with such a small regional population, without floating on a veritable ocean of red ink....

[dasmo]

Not to mention the region all the way to and including Port Renfrew....

So really in the context of that larger region, the population of "Greater Victoria" is still infinitesimal compared to most cities even by Canadian standards. Put another way assuming the population projection for the CRD above is remotely accurate, by 2038 - 20 years from now - we'll still be significantly smaller than Surrey is today. I dearly love trains having been across this country 5x West to East and East to West, but there ain't no way no how that rail will fly, pardon the expression, as a viable commuter option with such a small regional population, without floating on a veritable ocean of red ink....

We are plenty big enough for a Tram. We were a lot smaller when they ran all over Victoria. There are plenty of cities our scale with trams. We don’t need to create one from scratch! We just need to revive what we already have. That is a huge difference.

[Mike K.]

They ran, but were very slow and cumbersome which is why the bus wave cleared them out.

I can’t even begin to imagine the melee if we also had teams downtown. That would be pretty wonky.

For the record though I love trams.

[tjv]

I had no idea CVRD was that populated! Well I’ll be...

yes with housing prices to match.  I was asked to finance houses on Cowichan Bay, nothing special houses, brand new on postage stamp lots of 6,000 to 7,000 sf lots starting at 700k.

 

Trust me, my jaw hit the ground when I heard that, but confirmed its true and they are selling as quickly as down here

[Mike K.]

Wow, just wow.

I recall seeing amazing properties nary 18 months ago for $725-$750k. I bet they’re approaching $900k in this market.

People want IN and they’ll do whatever necessary to get in.

[malahatdrive]

John Horgan on CFax 1070 this morning again reiterated that rail returning to Greater Victoria isn't going to happen.

From CFax...
Horgan also addressed quashing a plan to revive trains on the E & N rail line, saying it would be better used as a bus corridor since trains would have to stop at Vic West -- forcing passengers onto some other sort of transport to get downtown.

" Since the Johnson Street bridge has been finished without a train track on it the closest you can get to town is Vic West. And study and after study shows with transportation issues if people have to transfer more than once they are more likely to stay in their car, so if we're going to use public transit on the E & N corridor into town we have to make sure that it's flexible and people will use it."

[Bingo]

" Since the Johnson Street bridge has been finished without a train track on it the closest you can get to town is Vic West. And study and after study shows with transportation issues if people have to transfer more than once they are more likely to stay in their car, so if we're going to use public transit on the E & N corridor into town we have to make sure that it's flexible and people will use it."

 

Right, and we need to be flexible with our thinking. Now that we have a  new bridge over the harbour we can run a rail line from the Roundhouse over to the Bay Street Bridge and into town. 

[dasmo]

Ya what a BS statement. A Tram stop just on the other side of the bridge would be way more awkward. It would be better to have an exchange at the Roundhouse anyway. Someone put the right bag of money somewhere or didn’t. Like converting the E&N to a bus lane would be any cheaper or more appealing to ride.... like I said we have already upgraded all the crossings. A Tram is a renovation project. A bus line is a totally new development.

[Mike K.]

Removing rail is also likely to run into issues with First Nations land claims. I believe the line runs through Songhees land.

That right of way was explicitly allocated for rail services. No rail means the land is likely to fall back within the jurisdiction of the band and they may not allow a bus route to operate along the right of way.

Given this part of me wants to believe that the bus service along the E&N is a no-go right from the start and that the government knows there will be a very lengthy consultation process that will ultimately lead to a resolution that nixes its use as a bus corridor.

[tjv]

probably true, I wonder what the right of way agreements actually say, they weren't overly technical like today and could simply say transportation, etc instead of rail service.  Hard to say what is says exactly without pulling the right of way agreements at Land Titles

[Mike K.]

The wording was explicitly for railroad use, according to Adam Stirling on CFAX. Adam knows his stuff and I suspect the cessation of rail use (pulling up the tracks) opens that dialogue right up.

[splashflash]

Removing rail is also likely to run into issues with First Nations land claims. I believe the line runs through Songhees land.

That right of way was explicitly allocated for rail services. No rail means the land is likely to fall back within the jurisdiction of the band and they may not allow a bus route to operate along the right of way.

Given this part of me wants to believe that the bus service along the E&N is a no-go right from the start and that the government knows there will be a very lengthy consultation process that will ultimately lead to a resolution that nixes its use as a bus corridor.

Listen to Premier Horgan on CFAX 1070 with Al Ferraby. Horgan states that the former Esquimalt chief was very sore about the rail line bisecting the reserve. The government had First Nations consultation among the top reasons when cancelling the Liberal government's cost-benefit analysis of the Langford-Vic West Corridor. I think the continguous corridor would be sacrificed if First Nations development were impeded, which it would be in the case of the Songhees.

The Capital Regional E&N bike path was not allowed to follow the rail line in the northern portion of the Songhees Reserve and has to parallel Hallowell and Admirals outide the perimeter of the reserve. The sanctity of the rail corridor will be sacrificed to the land claims of First Nations.