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[Rail] Commuter rail


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#2401 splashflash

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 08:21 PM

Yah, kind of like the rail pipedream, except magnitudes less costly.

#2402 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 12:11 AM

A chain-link fence with barbed wire will be installed to cut off access to the Goldstream bridge, where a 16-year-old took his own life in January.

 

The death of Andre ­Courtemanche, who had struggled with depression, prompted calls for better mental-health supports along with measures to prevent future deaths at the rail bridge. His body was found in ­Goldstream Provincial Park on Jan. 9.

 

https://www.timescol...idge-1.24298150

 

The barriers are being installed by the Island Corridor Foundation, which owns the rail line.

 

They will include a six- to eight-foot chain-link fence with barbed wire blocking access to the ends of the trestle, fencing around unauthorized trails in the park that connect to the trestle and signs alerting park users when they’re entering private property, said foundation CEO Larry Stevenson.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 March 2021 - 12:15 AM.

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#2403 GaryOak

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 06:56 AM

They might as well take down the trestle, I doubt it can support a train anymore
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#2404 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 05:10 AM

Comment: Stop dreaming about returning trains to E&N corridor

denise "davoie":

 

 

https://www.timescol...idor-1.24313003

 

The old heavy gauge train doesn’t make economic sense today on that corridor, especially when we look at the success of bus rapid transit with electric buses. There is no option using the corridor which can compete with buses on the Trans-Canada Highway. The other options which have been studied for the corridor are train commuter service and a busway.

 

According to the province’s South Island Transportation Strategy Technical Report No. 2, the rail commuter service would carry 1,600 passengers per day and cost $595 million; the busway would cost $420 million to $520 million and would carry 5,700 passengers per day; the Douglas-Westshore Bus Rapid Transit Network on the Trans-Canada Highway will carry 15,850 passengers per day and will cost only $40 million.

 

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...idor-1.24313003


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 29 April 2021 - 05:11 AM.


#2405 On the Level

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 07:25 AM

 

 

According to the province’s South Island Transportation Strategy Technical Report No. 2, the rail commuter service would carry 1,600 passengers per day and cost $595 million; the busway would cost $420 million to $520 million and would carry 5,700 passengers per day; the Douglas-Westshore Bus Rapid Transit Network on the Trans-Canada Highway will carry 15,850 passengers per day and will cost only $40 million.

 

That is monstrously false. 

 

The $40m is for only widening the Burnside Bridge and repurposing a small section of the Island Highway (Sooke road) for bus lanes.  It is missing almost all of what was required for BRT, and even then, it is capital construction only and "does not include property, First Nations engagement, utilities, and other mitigation of impacts".  Nor does it include Buses (at $1.1m a pop), enhanced bus stops, and operating costs.   The investments made these past few years that make up almost all of the route are hidden from the estimate.  The cost of increasing the service as indicated is missing.

 

The $595 million cost for E&N rail is "all in" including purchasing land and building 6 stations (which most are not needed) and even then, it is highly questionable given the other estimates provided to the Ministry.  It equates to what would be a chunk of Victoria Regional Transit budget, then you need to add MOT budget from the rapid bus portions of the TCH including a chunk of the Mackenzie Interchange project.

 

 

 

This rail corridor was built when the competition was wagon roads and the bicycle had just been invented.

 

That is a silly statement.  The bicycle was invented 66 years prior to the E&N and was actually quite popular.   You tube has a number of older videos which shows many people riding downtown Victoria.


Edited by On the Level, 29 April 2021 - 07:25 AM.


#2406 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 07:47 AM

Where would they find the 20 or 30-acres needed for staging trains, and maintaining them?

The E&N endeavour is a $1 billion project and it still stops short of downtown Victoria, which makes it a last choice compared to a bus that stops outside of the office.

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#2407 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 07:50 AM

But all that being said, we’re not going back to normal. Downtown Victoria will be transitioning into a residential node now and converting some of the offices already sitting empty. The future is more employment in Langford, as funnelling people into downtown makes no sense any more and we needed the pandemic to allow that to sink in.

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#2408 splashflash

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 08:57 AM

Where would they find the 20 or 30-acres needed for staging trains, and maintaining them?

The E&N endeavour is a $1 billion project and it still stops short of downtown Victoria, which makes it a last choice compared to a bus that stops outside of the office.

 

From Appendix F of the Island Corridor Assessment (Apr 2020)  https://www2.gov.bc....and/island-rail

 

 

Temporary storage space for up to four trains of this assumed length is potentially available in the vicinity of
Victoria Station, but this is contingent upon local development, track management capacity, and any additional carservicing
needs during off-peak storage times.
This maximum storage capacity is only achievable in a 1-direction peak service scenario because it utilizes both the
full length of the existing station terminus track between Harbour Road and Tyee/Sorghees Road, the existing
double-track length between Tyee Road and Sikum Road, and four storage bays in the former Island Rail Corridor
(IRC) Roundhouse site, which is still zoned for rail use.

-----------------------------------

 

Larry Stevenson, in his address to the CRD Transportation Committee in February, said that the maintenance and staging could be done from the Nanaimo yard.  He says that would cut some of the property acquisition costs.  So he mixes the Langford to Vic West commuter trains with the intercity trains, but this increases the total cost as the Langford - Nanaimo segment would also need to be upgraded.  There would also be additional operational costs as there would be a significant overcapacity of trains north of Langford.  That is unless the report recommendations are ignored and the Dayliner is simply turned around and intercity transit is the focus.  Except the costs are even worse then...


Edited by splashflash, 29 April 2021 - 09:02 AM.


#2409 splashflash

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 09:08 AM

But all that being said, we’re not going back to normal. Downtown Victoria will be transitioning into a residential node now and converting some of the offices already sitting empty. The future is more employment in Langford, as funnelling people into downtown makes no sense any more and we needed the pandemic to allow that to sink in.

More people should be able to work from home too now that they have had practise working with Zoom and created new habits.



#2410 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 09:09 AM

It's a complete boondoggle. The ICF has been playing games for two decades now and Stew Young is right in demanding that either the province and the feds build a proper rail line or shut it down. Taxpayers have had enough of being dragged into infrastructure investments at crossings for a train that is unlikely to ever run.


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#2411 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 09:11 AM

More people should be able to work from home too now that they have had practise working with Zoom and created new habits.

 

The days of downtown Victoria being the central office hub are over. The popularity of the Langford flex space the province just opened is off the wall, and downtown offices are staffed in the 3-10% level of their pre-COVID on-site employment numbers.


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#2412 On the Level

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 09:49 AM

The days of downtown Victoria being the central office hub are over. The popularity of the Langford flex space the province just opened is off the wall, and downtown offices are staffed in the 3-10% level of their pre-COVID on-site employment numbers.

 

That is a good point.  I am wondering if this perception will change in post years after Covid is better managed and people start to return to the office.  If offices are going to stay at 3 to 10%, then the core is going to have a rough period ahead, especially given the anti-development sentiment that keeps pushing people to the Westshore.



#2413 Rob Randall

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 09:57 AM

We should get those heavy rail trains that drive straight onto the deck of the commuter ferry. Let's combine two stupid ideas at one time in true government fashion.


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#2414 sebberry

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 10:02 AM

That is a good point.  I am wondering if this perception will change in post years after Covid is better managed and people start to return to the office.  If offices are going to stay at 3 to 10%, then the core is going to have a rough period ahead, especially given the anti-development sentiment that keeps pushing people to the Westshore.

 

We saw how quickly the BC government rushed to get people back into the office.  I think there will be more people back downtown than you think.


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#2415 sebberry

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 10:03 AM

We should get those heavy rail trains that drive straight onto the deck of the commuter ferry. Let's combine two stupid ideas at one time in true government fashion.

 

We can make the ferry eco-friendly too.  No motors, just use the momentum from the train coming to a sudden stop on the boat.


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#2416 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 10:21 AM

We saw how quickly the BC government rushed to get people back into the office.  I think there will be more people back downtown than you think.

 

not so sure.  let's see what the next set of union contract negotiations say about WFH.



#2417 marks_28

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 11:26 AM

The popularity of the Langford flex space the province just opened is off the wall, and downtown offices are staffed in the 3-10% level of their pre-COVID on-site employment numbers.

 

What do you mean exactly by off the wall? Sure, it's popular, but what #s are you using to gauge that? Is the new flex space currently 100% full most days? Or is it just what you've been hearing? Not doubting you, just genuinely curious.



#2418 Mike K.

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 11:48 AM

From what I’ve heard now, is it’s going to make the case for further investment of its kind.

People said after 9/11 happened that it would usher in a new normal, and did it ever. We didn’t see it right away, but looking back 20 years I can point to major societal changes since that day.

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#2419 tanker

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 12:45 PM

We should get those heavy rail trains that drive straight onto the deck of the commuter ferry. Let's combine two stupid ideas at one time in true government fashion.

Forget that let's make it a vehicle ferry



#2420 splashflash

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 01:56 PM

 

 

That is monstrously false. 

 

The $40m is for only widening the Burnside Bridge and repurposing a small section of the Island Highway (Sooke road) for bus lanes. 

 

Actually, the remaining section along the TCH too.

 

It is missing almost all of what was required for BRT, and even then, it is capital construction only and "does not include property, First Nations engagement, utilities, and other mitigation of impacts".  Nor does it include Buses (at $1.1m a pop), enhanced bus stops, and operating costs.   The investments made these past few years that make up almost all of the route are hidden from the estimate.  The cost of increasing the service as indicated is missing.

 

Sunk costs should be included?  Why?  Rail corridor property acquisition costs, whether for a rail activation or busway are not included.

The Burnside Bridge widening and facilitation with bus lanes is actually less than half of the $40 million.  Since this is not in First Nations land, those consultation costs would be low.

 

 

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