3103 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Ok then. So we can reasonably conclude that the Rail Trail running through Esquimalt and into View Royal will be at the mercy of the Songhees nation. I don't think the nation has any other land west of the Esquimalt/View Royal border? At least that's it for the Rail Trail span.

The rail trail currently does not go through the reserve.

[dasmo]

The E&N does I believe. But that section got finished with the support of the Songhees if I remember right. I doubt the recreational trails that are built are in jeopardy personally. They benefit everyone. If I was the band and ownership reverted I would just charge rent or lease it. That’s the most likely outcome for those sections IMO.

[Victoria Watcher]

The E&N does I believe. But that section got finished with the support of the Songhees if I remember right. I doubt the recreational trails that are built are in jeopardy personally. They benefit everyone. If I was the band and ownership reverted I would just charge rent or lease it. That’s the most likely outcome for those sections IMO.

 

They did not want it on reserve.  So it diverts to the (non-reserve) roads at the reserve.

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...vrsn=45ed05ca_4

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 June 2022 - 05:07 AM.

[Mike K.]

Aha! Ok that’s good, they foresaw this scenario.

[Victoria Watcher]

2016:

 

 

 

For Andy Thomas, provincial funding for a section of the E&N Rail Trail that skirts the heart of the Esquimalt Nation is good news.

 

But while the Esquimalt chief was supportive of the cycling infrastructure, he said the rail line itself — devoid of trains for five years — is posing an obstacle to development.

 

“I’ve always said just tear up the tracks and give us our land back,” he said. “It cuts our reserve in three pieces with the railway and Admirals Road, you know. It makes our land harder to be able to develop.”

 

Transportation Minister Todd Stone announced Wednesday that seven Vancouver Island projects would share $2.7 million in Bike B.C. grants. About $900,000 will go toward Victoria’s two-way protected bicycle facility on Pandora Avenue and $450,000 will go toward Saanich’s Lansdowne bike lanes.

 

 

https://www.timescol...ef-says-4638944

 

 

 

Instead of cutting through the heart of the Esquimalt First Nation, the trail diverts up to Admirals Road — a request the community made in 2010.

 

“Our community didn’t want anything to do with it, they said we’re not going to have any privacy, so it’s about trying to find that balance,” Thomas said.

 

That balance has been found, he said. But the tracks remain a problem.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 June 2022 - 05:51 AM.

[splashflash]

And more recently: https://www.timescol...nations-4687341

 

North of the Esquimalt reservation, and abutting the west side of the E&N, is land being purchased by the Province to append to it.  The trail already exist in

the section of railway.

 

 

Attached Images

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[Victoria Watcher]

Now, some 20 years later, the Island Corridor Foundation has done that, with its Vancouver Island Rail Initial Business Case. And the $431 million it is seeking is modest compared with the reported $1 billion-plus the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure has estimated to “fix” just the Malahat.

 

The province, with federal government partnership, must get on board with the ICF plan. For the very same issues, identified in 2002, are becoming worse.

 

There are more traffic delays and closures, many of which are caused by increasingly severe weather like last November’s torrential rains. The Island’s population is expected to reach nearly one million by 2038, according to B.C. Population Estimates and Projections, so how is the resulting transportation demand going to be handled?

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...-island-5505307

 

 

 

Currently, 24,600 vehicles and 30,000 people travel over the Malahat each day.

 

https://www.vtpi.org/malahat.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

So spend $1 billion for the 30,000 people in vehicles each day, or $431 million to take 200 people over every day in a train?

[dasmo]

Didn’t they just finish fixing the Malahat?

[FogPub]

Didn’t they just finish fixing the Malahat?

Patching it up, yes; but not fixing it the way it needs fixing i.e. make it a 4-lane limited access freeway from Tillicum Rd. to Nanaimo.

 

Also, to make the railway work the way the editorial writer wants it to (multiple passenger trains up and down each day plus freight) would require double-tracking the whole thing, or a very great majority of it, so these trains could pass each other without having to wait in a siding - has that been factored into any cost analyzing?

Edited by FogPub, 23 June 2022 - 09:01 PM.

[On the Level]

Also, to make the railway work the way the editorial writer wants it to (multiple passenger trains up and down each day plus freight) would require double-tracking the whole thing, or a very great majority of it, so these trains could pass each other without having to wait in a siding - has that been factored into any cost analyzing?

 

That is not true.  If the rail gets so popular that it has so many trains that they need to continuously run in parallel then great.  Otherwise you just use side tracks like the ones in Langford to coordinate stops and other traffic.    

[Victoria Watcher]

If we can reach the moon, then the E&N can work

 

 

Some people are big fans of the E&N Dayliner, while others feel they’ve been taken for a ride on an invisible train that comes with a lot of baggage.

 

Since 2011, taxpayers have paid $7 million annually for a ticket for a train that has gone nowhere. Has it become the invisible train like the one in Old Town at the Royal B.C. Museum? When the Dayliner ran, it was almost empty, ran in the opposite direction to rush hour and the ticket reservation counter was back east in the twilight zone.

 

Here’s an idea: The government should create a scratch ticket to support the rebuilding of the Via Rail transportation link. The bonus section on the scratch ticket might include the words Breakdowns, Blockades or Bankruptcy to indicate the costs and reality of operating a train. When the train is resurrected, it could carry a dining car offering Island- produced food, wines and craft beers. The government might gamble by carrying a casino car. The caboose could allow for cannabis. These passengers wouldn’t care what time the train arrives.

 

The sin tax profits would ensure that there would be a light at the end of every tunnel. The supply-chain train must be electric and plug in at various towns as needed.

 

Refurbished sleeper cars could be dropped off to provide affordable housing to remote towns that need summer farm labourers or temporary winter accommodation for those working at resorts and spas.

 

Tourists and locals could shuttle in comfort from storm watching, biking, skiing or Malahat road closures. Perhaps old-growth forest tourists could volunteer getting a free ride and become tree planters.

 

The $90-billion Canadian National railway corporation could provide expertise and financial support.

 

An efficient commuter train could provide additional tourism, carry museum artifacts for display, mobile medical care and doctors without buildings.

 

For national security, it could rapidly deploy military or rescue personnel for washed-up hazardous ship containers, intrusive foreign fishing vessels, earthquake disasters or a portable bomb-removal unit when needed.

 

If we can put a man on the moon and a rover on Mars, surely we can engineer a train that could remain on track or, at least, break even.

 

 

Art Bickerton
Saanich

 

 

https://www.timescol...-a-home-5557183

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 July 2022 - 05:09 AM.

[Mike K.]

Doctors without buildings, lol.

Art has the right idea here. This thing is kaput.

[todd]

We didn’t go to the moon.

[Mike K.]

I think that’s the punchline.

[todd]

Doesn’t mean we can’t go.

[Mike K.]

CRD calls for collaboration on Island Rail Corridor
Jul 14, 2022
Victoria, BC– The CRD Board voted to support the Island Corridor Foundation’s requests that the federal and provincial governments work together to equitably settle Indigenous claims within and along the island rail corridor, and to create a multi-disciplinary team, reflecting all affected interests, to advance rail as a transportation option on Vancouver Island.

“We need to have meaningful conversations with communities along the Island Rail Corridor about our shared future, “said CRD Board Chair Colin Plant. “We want to keep options open for growth and development while listening to and respecting interests of local First Nations.”

The Island Rail Corridor is an approximately 295 km rail corridor owned by the Island Corridor Foundation (ICF). ICF is ultimately responsible for infrastructure maintenance and repair along the corridor to restore rail service on Vancouver Island.

In a presentation to the CRD Board, the Island Corridor Foundation requested support getting the federal and provincial governments in the same room, and for the province to establish a joint multi-disciplinary team.

The Snaw-naw-as Nation is seeking the segment of the corridor through their reserve to revert to the Nation as the corridor is no longer used for railway purposes. The BC Court of Appeal has given Canada until March 2023 to determine its intent for the corridor before the Nation can return to court to enforce its right of reversion. Land claim settlement is a senior government responsibility, and that work is crucial to any development process.

The CRD Board has consistently recognized the Island Rail Corridor as a key component of the regional transportation system. After Indigenous claims are settled, development of the corridor would entail more in-depth financial analysis working with regional districts, municipalities, and Nations in partnership with the provincial and federal governments.

[splashflash]

https://www.timescol...railway-5601700


Comment: Choose active transportation, not a renewed railway
​​​​​​​A commentary by Denise Savoie, the former MP for Victoria, a director of Friends of Rails to Trails — Vancouver Island.


There are better ways to improve public transportation on Vancouver Island than wasting money to prop up a failed Victorian railway as the Capital Regional District board is suggesting. I hope the intention of the recent CRD motion about the corridor was about reconciliation, not about reinstating a railway that no longer makes sense.

The Island Corridor Foundation’s recent business case for rail cherry-picks information that underestimates the real costs and exaggerates the benefits of their proposal.

A half-billion dollars would only provide two daily trains from Duncan to Victoria, which is not nearly enough frequency to serve most travellers. More frequent bus service would do the job better and at less cost to taxpayers.

But worse than this weak business case for rail is the CRD elected officials’ response — asking senior governments to waste taxpayer money to pay for it.

The foundation’s analysis conjures up passenger numbers based on unsupported claims of mode-share capture and fails to recognize the importance of transit frequency in capturing ridership.

It also ignores the time and cost of transfers from Vic West to most CRD destinations. In contrast, bus routes travelling on well-placed corridors directly to downtown, the University of Victoria and Oak Bay would be considerably cheaper.

According to transportation planner Todd Litman, in his report Rethinking Malahat Solutions, frequent and available bus service on that highway could attract 10 to 30 per cent of trips, much more than limited train service would divert and requiring far fewer public dollars.

[Victoria Watcher]

^  But worse than this weak business case for rail is the CRD elected officials’ response — asking senior governments to waste taxpayer money to pay for it.

 

The foundation’s analysis conjures up passenger numbers based on unsupported claims of mode-share capture and fails to recognize the importance of transit frequency in capturing ridership.

 

It also ignores the time and cost of transfers from Vic West to most CRD destinations. In contrast, bus routes travelling on well-placed corridors directly to downtown, the University of Victoria and Oak Bay would be considerably cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

Cannot agree more.

[Spy Black]

Although I think a train running consistently throughout the day between the Goldstream Station and downtown is a great idea, and would supplement roadway alternatives quite nicely ... to continue the run up island from the CRD seems a waste of time, based on the extremely limited number of runs and travellers that would be accommodated.

 

It does, however, seem foolish to lose a transit corridor as solid as the E&N line is between Goldstream and the COV, especially with the "infant-like" view of regional transit held by both the CRD and all the individual muni's that make up the CRD.

[Mike K.]

No rail, no corridor. That’s how the courts view it. But I would agree that making it a rapid bus corridor would make a lot of sense.