3103 replies to this topic

[LJ]

Infinitely different experience; for the most part those Euro systems are high speed trains designed expressly to compete with domestic airlines in moving people from A to B in the fastest possible time. They are for the most part little more than souped-up commuter systems.

 

Canadian trains OTOH are not, with the exception of some of the commuter lines in the Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa triangle. Those trains aside, Canadian rail is geared instead to travellers both domestic and international who want to experience the historic atmosphere of the old "Canadian", or whatever they are calling its 21st century equivalent, and the spectacular views afforded by its famed dome cars which at the time were unique to Canadian trains. They want to see the Rockies, the Canadian prairies, the Canadian Shield and great lakes etc.

 

The last domestic train I was on was the Rocky Mountaineer which even more so caters to those rail buffs wanting to experience the romance of rail travel at that deliberately slower speed.

 

The existence of the RM is designed purposely for that reason and to attract those rail fans uninterested in riding a glorified bullet train. When I was on the RM virtually no one was glued to anything close to a laptop or tablet other than perhaps at night in the hotel; most passengers were far too busy during the day snapping pictures or taking video of the passing BC/Alberta/Rockies landscape. I can't recall the last time anywhere anytime that I saw so many DSLR cameras nor so many expensive long telephoto lens'. There is even a platform on the last car of all RM trains dedicated exclusively to camera aficionados so they can have uninterrupted time and easy access taking pics and making their videos.

I guess I have driven across the country too many times to want to take a slow train.

[AllseeingEye]

ASE you are going to get a kick out of this story. 

 

Imagine a 10 year old Sparky climbing up into that "Old Canadian" that you speak about on a summer's afternoon in Vancouver...too many decades ago. Destination Shubenacadie Nova Scotia to visit my dad's war buddy that I was named after.

 

The journey consisted of 4 or 5 days and nights to Montreal via Canadian Pacific and then a day or two to "Shubie" via Canadian National. 

 

Day upon day of riding the observation car, dinner in the deluxe dinning car and nights in the "sleepers" which were conversions that the porters rigged up somehow where the seats used to be. 

 

What a fantastic journey for a little pissant to go on at such a young age. Mountains, fields, farmhouses and the backyards of big and little cities. When I saw this poster in a second hand store....I had to have it for my office wall so I could remember what life was like before airplanes. (obtaining my pilot's license decades later is another story).

 

rr2.jpg

 

 

I totally get it Sparky!

 

We did the same route from Vancouver to Truro NS each time, in 1964 (age 4), 1967, 1971 and lastly in 1977. Those rail trips fired my little boy's imagination - I still remember the spectacular lighting storms on the prairies during the 1964 trip: my west coast eyes had never seen before (or since) electrical storms of that scale and magnitude. Dad let me stay up and sit with him in the dome car while we watched the spectacle in wonder, which was awesome for a wee tadpole such as me. I remember it vividly 57 years later . Those journeys and the memories they evoke were/are the reason I am a train nut to this day.

 

In 1967 we stopped over in Montreal and spent two amazing days at Expo 67, another fabulous and unforgettable memory.  The Underground City, shops and malls in Montreal all connected via the metro was like nothing I'd ever seen. The sights and smells of those trains also stay with me to this day and are largely why I want to do the trip at least once more. Both dad and my grandfather were huge film and camera buffs so we have literally hundreds of pictures and a dozen or more canisters of 8mm film documenting all of those trips which of course are priceless to me.

 

Flying is convenient obviously but it doesn't begin to compare as far as the travel experience. The first time I ever flew anywhere consequential was in 1975 when we went to Britain for a month. Beyond the fact we flew a Wardair 747 it was unremarkable - ok they did serve a damn good steak dinner with *real* cutlery - and I can't remember or tell you much about it. But from those long ago train journeys I can recall and recount in detail various experiences from all of them.

[Victoria Watcher]

First Nation says it's the end of the line for Island railway

 

The chief of the nation that filed a court case in hopes of winning its land back from the railway right-of-way says there is no business case to re-invest in the corridor

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...railway-6597788

 

 

 

The right-of-way that cuts through Snaw-Naw-As lands was granted to the former E&N Railway in 1912 to create the rail line. Today, the Island Corridor Foundation, made up of regional districts and First Nations, holds the land.

 

First Nations have expressed concern about the Island Rail Corridor running through or next to their communities and traditional territories.

 

“Given the impacts of the corridor on some of these communities, there is limited interest in restoring rail service in its current location(s),” says a new First Nations engagement report from B.C.’s Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure and the Island Corridor Foundation.

 

The report follows engagement last fall with 14 First Nations, some of which are making plans for alternative use of lands now held by the Island Corridor Foundation if rail service is not restored. Some nations are also interested in a joint or partial ownership of a new rail service, the report said.

 

_____________________

 

First Nations cited health and safety concerns if rail service is restored next to their communities, the report said. They also warned of possible unintended consequences, including an influx of non-Indigenous people within their lands, impacts on animal-crossing corridors and flooding.

 

The engagement process heard from First Nations open to non-rail transportation use because of potential environmental benefits, but views on the best possible use vary.

 

Some favoured commuter transit such as light rail or rapid buses to cut back on vehicles on roads, while others want to see a corridor for cycling and walking. “However, use of the corridor for bikeways, trails or other forms of transportation should be secondary to nations’ interests,” the report said.

 

On Tuesday, the Capital Regional District issued a statement saying that all Island regional districts are calling on the federal government to commit to protecting the line and seeing it restored.

 

Edwards, however, called on the Island Corridor Foundation and regional districts to start thinking about what else is possible for the corridor and “stop pursuing an unsustainable, expensive, Victorian-era fantasy.”

 

He said regional districts are urging Ottawa to fund the rail line and “have the gall to say that doing so furthers reconciliation.”

 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, the Capital Regional District issued a statement saying that all Island regional districts are calling on the federal government to commit to protecting the line and seeing it restored.

 

 

 

I read the letter, there was no Nanaimo area representation signing it.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 February 2023 - 04:28 AM.

[splashflash]

[quote/] I read the letter, there was no Nanaimo area representation signing it.[/quote]

The article had corrections already, likely made at the request of the ICF. Perhaps you could submit an error report to ChekNews to further correct what you had found, no mayoral signatures from the CRD or other regions nor regional district of Nanaimo chair signature. https://www.cheknews...adline-1141696/

Edited by splashflash, 23 February 2023 - 08:36 AM.

[AllseeingEye]

Re the discussion of what to do with the E&N railbed it was very interesting to discover when in NS recently a similar debate occurring there; I noticed the old railbed and track runs directly through the middle of Windsor, ultimately terminating in Halifax.

 

Like the line here on VI its overgrown and has been disused in that case for over 30 years when direct passenger service through western NS ceased. There was a smaller commercial/mining component of a spur line line further to the north west in Hantsport but that too was shut down in 2011.

 

Interesting nonetheless the attitude there re that old line - LOTS of support within the township proper due to the prospect of (mining) jobs - and "possibilities" in general for the future of a return to viable rail passenger operations. Of course a critical departure from the debate here is this section of the line there also has the advantage of a US owner with deep pockets and a working gypsum mine that would presumably make it financially workable again one day.

 

That commercial viability in NS as opposed to a primarily passenger service here is a key factor for sure but it is also interesting that unlike on VanIsle where FN involvement will be a key influence in any conversation about rail due to the corridor running through traditional territory of multiple island bands, little if any Mi'kmaq First Nations involvement appears to be evident in the rail conversation back east, one way or the other, in spite of the fact they are by far the dominant FN in that region of Canada. If there is its very muted and very much under the radar as opposed to here.

 

My guess is that is mainly because the Mi'kmaq are and have been for several years far more concerned and heavily involved with traditional commercial fishery/lobster harvesting rights and concerns.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...rains-1.5769258

[Matt R.]

The house we stay at in Amherst is right across from the railway there, busy busy!

[Matt R.]

Amtrak Cascades resumes pre Covid service from Vancouver to Eugene, Oregon starting March 6.

Leave Vancouver at 6:30 am, arrive Portland 3 pm.

I think I’ll make a point of doing this in June.

https://amtrakoregon...jdIlavjNxFTEL14

[AllseeingEye]

Amtrak Cascades resumes pre Covid service from Vancouver to Eugene, Oregon starting March 6.

Leave Vancouver at 6:30 am, arrive Portland 3 pm.

I think I’ll make a point of doing this in June.

https://amtrakoregon...jdIlavjNxFTEL14

 

Love to read your impressions of this; I've tried thus far unsuccessfully to convince Mrs ASE to do a x-country rail trip from here to Nova Scotia; she claims, without ever having done it naturally, that she's not interested..."not my thing". Of course she always ducks my follow up question, namely "how do you know something isn't your thing if you're never done it?!" 

 

This week she came back from Hawaii with the kidlin', a Christmas gift from me to them. She was shocked at the cost of everything in Hawaii - I haven't been in 35 years so I take her at her word - so I'm looking to do a smaller mini-trip for just her and me somewhere closer to home. And something just a little different. For me a rail trip from YVR to Portland or perhaps San Fran would be ideal. Be very interested to hear about your experience in June if you do in fact do it Matt.....

[Matt R.]

I can’t do the cross canada train yet, maybe in a few years, but I think I can swing five days in June to go to Portland. Looks like about $160usd round trip, if I did the form right.

Most of my work life is frantic, loud and sensory overload. I am very content to just sit and be still and would have no problem with a long train ride.

We noticed the prices in Vallarta are waaaaaay up from the last time we were there, which was pre Covid of course.

[Victoria Watcher]

First Nations board members resign from Island Corridor Foundation board

 

The First Nations board members had made an unsuccessful motion recommending the foundation tell provincial and federal governments it was abandoning the idea of restoring rail service on the Island.

 

https://www.timescol...n-board-6634905

 

 

They said the non-profit group should say “the ICF was stepping away from the fantasy of resuming rail activities and move forward in negotiating a new future for the rail line, to explore what else is possible.”

 

That motion failed in a six-to-five vote.

 

First Nations members who resigned are Aaron Hamilton of the Ts’uubaa-asatx at Lake Cowichan, Brent Edwards and Chris Bob both of the Snaw-Naw-As at Nanoose, Tim Harris of the Stz’uminus at Ladysmith, and William Yoachim of the Snuneymuxw at Nanaimo.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 March 2023 - 05:06 AM.

[splashflash]

I wish some of the regional district reps or the regional district at large rep would resign now too, admitting their mistake to continue supporting rail. A motion was introduced back in May by Brent Edwards to the same effect. The May ICF meeting m8nutes are here:

https://www.islandra...May-26-2022.pdf

Now it will be harder to repurpose the corridor and keep it as much intact as possible. It may be that the feds will have to get involved now and I doubt that will result in an elegant, timely solution.

Edited by splashflash, 02 March 2023 - 07:51 AM.

[Sparky]

We have done the Coast Starlight from Vancouver to San Jose. In a word…delightful. Then we took an ocean cruise back from LA.

We had the unique experience of crashing into a car that was purposely stopped on the tracks in Northern California.

So if we were keeping score we have now survived both a plane and a train crash.

[splashflash]

Here is the May 20, 2022 resolution:

 

New Business

12.1 Brent Edwards items - tabled to Special Board meeting.

MOTION

That: the Board table these items for discussion at the Special Board meeting to be scheduled

CARRIED

1. Engage in a community consultation process to solicit the view of each directly affected First Nation or Local Government concerning their views as to the appropriate use of the corridor lands through their area of interest.

2. Engage in a community consultation process to solicit views from potentially interested parties for alternate or compatible uses of the corridor.

3. Develop a plan for non-rail use for appropriate sections of the corridor based on the engagement with First Nations, Local governments, and community groups and as contingency in the event funding isn’t secured for the restoration of rail service, prior to the next AGM.

4. Investigate and develop a strategy for the removal of rail lines in the case of non-rail corridor use and options for recovering the costs through external sources, including Canada, BC and CP rail.

5.Develop and present proposed amendments to the Articles and By-Laws of the ICF if necessary, based on First Nation, Local Government and community engagement for consideration at the next AGM.

6. Meet with the Provincial and Federal government to secure funding for rail upgrades where feasible or to support alternate uses.

 

No minutes of the special meeting had been recorded and the ICF AGM has been in late May for the past few years, but was in April further back.  It is probably time to call a special meeting of the society members to make the constitution changes aligning with the above motion.

Edited by splashflash, 02 March 2023 - 08:18 AM.

[Mike K.]

Ok, so as we've been saying for a decade, rail is dead. Finally we can move on, and focus on something reasonable.

[Victoria Watcher]

Nanoose First Nation says it wants rail land back 'as soon as possible'

 

Nanoose First Nation says it will head back to court if the federal government decides not to support reviving Island rail service

https://www.timescol...ossible-6641466

[Victoria Watcher]

The future of the rail service on Vancouver Island may be becoming more uncertain. Five First Nation members of the Island Corridor Foundation (ICF) board have quit, less than two weeks before a court-imposed deadline for a decision on whether rail will be restored on the 295-kilometre corridor.

“We no longer see a role for ourselves in an organization that sticks its fingers in their ears to a First Nations’ engagement report, then sticks its hand out to government for a billion dollars,” the five First Nation members who resigned from the ICF said in a joint statement.

“As a starting point, we call on Canada and British Columbia to make it clear that they will not support the continuation of an uneconomical railway that will waste public goods and continue to harm the potential of First Nations on Vancouver Island.”


https://www.cheknews...rowing-1143034/





Looking at the 10 acres at Nanoose, the railway might easily be re-routed around the IR. It’s not clear there is an urgent need for that land on the reserve though. Housing density on the reserve is not high.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 03 March 2023 - 07:18 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

I notice no real government leaders have spoken up still. But hey, why not leave it to the last 11 days.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 03 March 2023 - 07:20 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

[Nparker]

Should passenger rail service be restored on Vancouver Island at a cost of $10,000/local resident?

[splashflash]

https://www.cheknews...rowing-1143034/





Looking at the 10 acres at Nanoose, the railway might easily be re-routed around the IR. It’s not clear there is an urgent need for that land on the reserve though. Housing density on the reserve is not high.

Oh?  The railway crosses under the expressway just west of the reservation and bisects it.  To the south of the reservation is the slope of the mountain while to the north is the ocean.  Rerouting the railway south would require a long approach.   Or were you joking?

 

https://www.google.c....1234788,15.25z