3104 replies to this topic

[splashflash]

F071C072-3F8E-49D6-B73D-BBD3056AAB36.jpeg

 

Vancouver Island Transportation Corridor Coalition, which is actually only about rail, getting members to swarm the polling sites and rig the polls again.

[AllseeingEye]

Vancouver Island Transportation Corridor Coalition, which is actually only about rail, getting members to swarm the polling sites and rig the polls again.

 

Proof? Got a source or a link?

[splashflash]

Proof? Got a source or a link?

Thanks for asking: 

 

(12) Vancouver Island Transportation Corridor Coalition | **VOTE!** | Facebook

 

And here: Rail service survey may not be entirely accurate (iheartradio.ca) Directing of supporters to the newspaper website polls back in 2020.

[AllseeingEye]

Thanks for asking: 

 

(12) Vancouver Island Transportation Corridor Coalition | **VOTE!** | Facebook

 

And here: Rail service survey may not be entirely accurate (iheartradio.ca) Directing of supporters to the newspaper website polls back in 2020.

 

Thanks for providing the links otherwise anyone can say anything they like which does not make it necessarily true; that said the Grumpy Taxpayers never met any project any time any where any place that they won't ***** and moan about. If it was left up to them no level of government anywhere in space or time would be permitted to spend even a dollar no matter what the project or cause, or whatever merits it may have, therefore I tend to take anything they say with a very large grain of salt. Their default position on just about anything you care to name is to s*** all over it.

[Nparker]

...Their default position on just about anything you care to name is to s*** all over it.

When it comes to the various levels of government and the inane ways they fritter away my tax dollars, I have no problem with the Grumpy's default position.

[AllseeingEye]

When it comes to the various levels of government and the inane ways they fritter away my tax dollars, I have no problem with the Grumpy's default position.

 

Don't get me wrong I have zero issue ever with fiscal oversight be it in the private or public sector; I've seen projects in both go badly off the rails excuse the pun, I just don't want to get off track of the subject at hand, i.e. reviving island rail services or not. And whether commenting and adopting a position on the ICF or E&N specifically, or more broadly just 'rail' generally, I'm not sure the GT are the group I'd look to to say YEA or NAY to make that call. By default their position on just about everything seems to be that even a dollar spent is a dollar too much.

 

As I said a few weeks ago, I think responding to Mike K, although I'm personally a huge rail fan and proponent I'm also a realist: ideally we'd have got some impartial third party to review and report back on the feasibility of rail right from the get-go; as long as they are in fact impartial and have no particular axe to grind or cause to push, i.e, the hard core cycling lobby to cite but one example, if the result is a big fat NO then personally I'm fine with the that. 

 

The problem it seems is that positions both pro and con are so entrenched that finding a truly non-biased, middle of the road approach and assessment is almost impossible. And the entire question has been left so late - with no politician or political party uttering so much as a single syllable one way or the other - not even those NDP members from the island who presumably are closest to the issue - it seems pretty clear there is no political will and certainly no single politician willing to take up the cause, therefore in all probability rail as an option will officially die on the island. 

Edited by AllseeingEye, 04 March 2023 - 07:34 PM.

[Nparker]

...it seems pretty clear there is no political will and certainly no single politician willing to take up the cause, therefore in all probability rail as an option will officially die on the island. 

Passenger rail died on Vancouver Island on March 18, 2011, when service between Victoria and Courtenay was suspended. We've just been waiting 12 years for the results of the autopsy.

[AllseeingEye]

We have done the Coast Starlight from Vancouver to San Jose. In a word…delightful. Then we took an ocean cruise back from LA.

We had the unique experience of crashing into a car that was purposely stopped on the tracks in Northern California.

So if we were keeping score we have now survived both a plane and a train crash.

 

Hey Sparky I was talking to Mrs ASE about this junket and we're both keenly interested. She has never really expressed an interest one way or the other re: rail so needless to say I was surprised and very pleased as it holds out possibilities for longer rail journeys cough,cough....perhaps one day even across - dare I say or hope it - Canada...cough.

 

Any info you can ping me directly via PM would be appreciated - anything you can think of on the CS itself, trip highlights as you head down the coast, ballpark costs for a CS ticket for two, which cruise line you booked with on the other end and its departure point in Cali (guessing Long Beach maybe?) and its end destination up here (Seattle, Vancouver?) would all be appreciated. Thanks!

[splashflash]

Passenger rail died on Vancouver Island on March 18, 2011, when service between Victoria and Courtenay was suspended. We've just been waiting 12 years for the results of the autopsy.

And it would have been suspended earlier if not for the usual government torpor.

 

ideally we'd have got some impartial third party to review and report back on the feasibility of rail right from the get-go; 

 

Well, both provincial parties in power had the MoTI produce multiple reports, searching for a way to resuscitate freight or passenger service.  They tried, I mean they really did.  Here is a link to the reports: Vancouver Island Rail Corridor - Province of British Columbia (gov.bc.ca)

 

The best potential is freight rail.

 

First, a paraphrase from the 2010 freight review report: The dominance of trucking had left rail with remarkably low market share on Vancouver Island, with only 900 carloads handled by SVI in 2009. Compared to parallel truck movements on the Island Highway, rail accounted for less than one percent of freight traffic. Rail traffic in 2009 was concentrated between Duncan, Nanaimo, and Parksville – and included grain, propane, and fertilizer from Alberta, silicates from Quebec, and outbound poles destined for Ontario.

 

Well, service was cut back to 10 miles in Nanaimo but was between 1000 and 1500 carloads currently per year.  The increase was partly owing to investment by the federal government last decade in a slip barge on Annacis Island, allowing for railcars of the large rail companies to come to the Island without hindrance as before they had to use CP Rail facilities.  Seaspan did quite nicely off that increase in business, though the federal government of the time was trying to help rail.

 

During that time, no expansion of freight to customers outside Nanaimo was achieved.  Railcars coming to Welcox Yard in Nanaimo that were beyond the 10 mile rail line in safe condition were transferred to trucks, mostly for the pulp & paper industry.  How many are these trucks that could possibly go by rail? About 1%.  Is the pulp & paper industry permanent?  Well Catalyst Paper shut down the mill in Campbell River more than a decade ago, and the Crofton mill just had production and labour force cuts.  Do you want tax money going to a rail line that could lose its customer in a few years?  No wonder SVI doesn't spend its own money when there is a chance government could fork out dough.  And guess what, SVI would remain the partner of the ICF, so no competition would occur with other rail carriers.  That would be unlike what occurs on highways where trucking firms compete when using publicly funded highways.

[Victoria Watcher]

The president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council is standing firmly behind a proposal to revive a rail system on Vancouver Island.

Judith Sayers, Cloy-e-iis, a member of the Hupacasath First Nation, was one of the founding board members of the Island Corridor Foundation and served as a co-chair of the board, giving her two decades with the foundation.

https://www.timescol...il-plan-6649915

[AllseeingEye]

Not inferring that you can compare Victoria with a city like Calgary "1:1" but I will admit during the ~ 5 years I commuted there several times annually for business that I admired the hell out of the place: when it comes to major capital projects dwarfing anything ever conceived here, that city of nearly 1.7 million - with, I hasten to add, but one mayor and 14 councillors - Gets. Stuff. Done.

 

They don't spend years or decades dawdling and staring at the their shoes, wringing their hands, writing letters to Vladimir Putin or getting their underwear in a twist worrying that their city has "changed too much" and that in 2023 its "unrecognizable" from 50-60 or more years ago like large numbers of Victorians do: they simply determine a need, figure out a budget, get the required players all together and get on with planning, designing and building it, as in this story about the latest expansion of their LRT system.

 

One thing however the article does not mention, and which is certainly central to the rail debate here, is what involvement, if any, FN's play in discussions between the various parties involved.

 

That would be very interesting to know, namely how the city and province of AB deal with the local bands upon whose territories I presume - perhaps incorrectly? - that at least some segments of the track overlies. Having spent a lot of time there I know Calgary is Treaty 7 country the traditional territory of the Blackfoot people. Around 1999-2001 when I was working for a Vancouver consulting firm we worked on a large IT project with the Blackfoot-Siksika Nation just east of Calgary, who were awesome to partner up with. Just delightful people.

 

Considering the heavy involvement of FN here on the island and the (4,5?) FN reps on the ICF board, it would be fascinating to know to what extent if any they participate, or don't, in any conversation about rail expansion in Calgary. At any rate good on that city for moving forward.

 

https://www.timescol...project-6657222

[Mike K.]

Oil revenues help get stuff done, I suppose. And the sheer growth rates require major infrastructure, plus its much cheaper to build out there given the terrain.

[Victoria Watcher]

Is the deadline today?

Where are the political leaders?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 March 2023 - 05:18 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Federal government mum on whether it will support Island rail proposal

The deadline for the federal government to decide if it will commit money for Island rail is Tuesday, but there’s been no word on any decision.

https://www.timescol...roposal-6694179

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 March 2023 - 05:42 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

The federal and provincial governments have announced they will return the 10.78-acre section of the E&N rail line that goes through the Snaw-Naw-As First Nation, and will continue consultation on the future of the rest of the corridor.

In a joint statement by Omar Alghabra, the federal minister of transport, and Rob Fleming, B.C.’s minister of transportation and infrastructure, the pair say they are returning the section that goes through Snaw-Naw-As First Nation as the first step in the process.


https://www.cheknews...turned-1144567/



Though this news doesn’t mean the E&N corridor will not be returning at all.

“Canada and the Province of British Colombia [sic] acknowledge the importance of this corridor,” the statement says. “As a result, we will begin a formal engagement process with affected First Nations on the next steps of the corridor for the mutual benefit of the province and First Nations. A partnership-driven approach represents the best way for moving forward together and achieving a collective vision for the corridor that benefits everyone.”

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 March 2023 - 08:28 AM.

[Mike K.]

Here’s the statement:

Rob Fleming, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure, has released the following statement on the future of the Island rail corridor, in recognition of timelines set by the B.C. Court of Appeal:

“Our government understands and supports the need for a reconciliation-based approach when considering the future of the Island rail corridor. Through our dialogue with the federal government, I know this is a value shared by Canada as well. Both levels of government are committed to working with First Nations to develop and advance a shared vision, and will respect reversion of the reserve lands as part of the process.

“We recognize how important this corridor is and we would like to see it preserved as much as possible. If the corridor is broken up and built over, it will be lost forever, and future generations will likely be unable to assemble a continuous transportation corridor of land like this again.

“The Province also firmly believes that any potential future use of the corridor, whether it involves rail restoration or not, must involve First Nations participation and perspectives. Consideration for how the Island rail corridor might be used in the future, and commitment to reconciliation, are inseparable.

“As a province, we must be thinking about this corridor in the context of today and its potential importance in the future. By the early 2030s, Vancouver Island will exceed one million residents and with that growth we need to consider the future value of the corridor for the movement of people and goods. And as we were reminded during the 2021 atmospheric river event, when the south Island was cut off from the rest of B.C. along the Malahat, we need to ensure we are more resilient to climate change.

“To that end, we are committing $18 million to allow for future corridor planning involving affected First Nations and regional districts. The funding will also allow First Nations to assess identified concerns such as flooding, access, noise, or safety issues where the corridor crosses their land.

“There is much more discussion to be had around the future of the corridor and that must be done in collaboration with the federal government, First Nations, and local government. The provincial government is committed to finding the best use for the Island rail corridor as well as supporting First Nations’ rights, jurisdiction and interests in these discussions.”

[Victoria Watcher]

I looked on the map. Bypassing this one reserve would be no significant deal.

It also appears this reserve doesn’t urgently need the land either. Based on the topography and very light development of the rest of the reserve nearby the tracks.

Anyway at least this thing can drag out for another decade or two now.

ICF staff can keep their jobs. We can keep maintaining signal equipment at crossings that never activate.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 March 2023 - 08:45 AM.

[Jacques Cadé]

Anyway at least this thing can drag out for another decade or two now.

ICF staff can keep their jobs. We can keep maintaining signal equipment at crossings that never activate.

 

Yes, $18 million will fund lots of meetings. But in the province's mind it's probably the cheapest route to take, next to doing nothing at all.

[Mike K.]

Right, and keeps the ROW tangled up indefinitely.

The old line had an industrial purpose that doesn’t make much sense today. If we were to restart rail service on the Island, another ROW would make much more sense, if for nothing else than energy efficiency and scheduling.

[Victoria Watcher]

“We recognize how important this corridor is and we would like to see it preserved as much as possible. If the corridor is broken up and built over, it will be lost forever, and future generations will likely be unable to assemble a continuous transportation corridor of land like this again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except we already have a  ^ "continuous transportation corridor" ^ that runs basically along the same route, that is much more versatile.