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Forest Fires


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#21 sebberry

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:54 PM

I was at Esq. Lagoon today having a bagel from Timmies and where I was sitting on the beach there were bits of garbage all over the place in the 10 feet around me. I can't imagine what people would leave laying around in the woods :(

The woman behind me on the highway was flicking her cigarette ashes out the sunroof. If she doesn't have an ashtray, where did the butt go? Probably out the window onto the grass too.

I'm getting tired of careless people and with my experience with fire this morning, it would be better off if they all just took a long walk off a short pier.

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#22 Bernard

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:56 PM

As an example of warnings, take a look at bans on using cel phones while fueling, the idea is that they could cause a fire which is physically impossible or not to use cel phones on a plane because it can interfere with the plane's electronics, which is also impossible.

Could you start a fire with a piece of broken glass? Yeah, if you had to be like survirorman, but it is less likely than causing a fire from leaving your prescription glasses out.

#23 sebberry

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:02 PM

As an example of warnings, take a look at bans on using cel phones while fueling, the idea is that they could cause a fire which is physically impossible or not to use cel phones on a plane because it can interfere with the plane's electronics, which is also impossible.

Could you start a fire with a piece of broken glass? Yeah, if you had to be like survirorman, but it is less likely than causing a fire from leaving your prescription glasses out.


Just because the gas station attendant smokes around people filling up doesn't mean you should ;)

If you look at a glass bottle there are many curves, ridges, etc.. that could focus the light and start a fire if the right conditions existed.

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#24 eseedhouse

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:02 PM

Could you start a fire with a piece of broken glass? Yeah, if you had to be like survirorman, but it is less likely than causing a fire from leaving your prescription glasses out.


Unless the glass was already shaped like a magnifying glass, no you couldn't. At least not by focussing sunlight through it. Maybe you could use it to strike a match on.

A pair of reading glasses might possibly do the trick if they had a high dioptre and you broke the frame so you could put the two lenses in series. If you are short sited your glasses wouldn't help, being of the wrong curvature.

#25 aastra

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:47 PM

There is no evidence there, only a claim about broken glass causing fires, supported by no facts.


I take it you overlooked the video that shows how a Pom bottle can start a fire?

If the discarded Pom bottle is chipped but otherwise intact, can we reasonably classify it as broken glass? If the discarded, chipped Pom bottle starts a fire, can we reasonably claim broken glass started a fire? How many lawyers would we require in order to come to a reasonable consensus?

As is often the case, people get hung up on semantics. The discarded Pom bottle doesn't care what we call it or how we classify it. It doesn't care about anything, nor does the dry brush, nor does the fire that ensues.

Anyone want to guess how many glass items, bottles or otherwise, have been discarded in dry country over the past hundred years or so?

I mean, what are we even debating here?

#26 aastra

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:57 PM

...take a look at bans on using cel phones while fueling, the idea is that they could cause a fire which is physically impossible...

In fact, the batteries in devices like cell phones can and do short circuit and start fires. If your faulty phone battery happens to burn up while your phone is exposed in a flammable environment then good luck to you and those around you. An unlikely possibility, yes, but definitely not impossible.

It’s probably safe to say that just about everyone is impressed with the incredible performance offered by lithium-ion batteries. They make our cell phones and laptops viable for real-world use and will be powering just about every electric vehicle on the road. These batteries do have one problem however: they sometimes catch fire. That’s not good. Fortunately, scientists at Cambridge University think they’re on the road to solving this problem...

http://www.gizmag.co...-problem/15164/

Other articles about same:
http://www.scienceda...00516195659.htm
http://news.bbc.co.u...ire/8687963.stm

When the batteries short-circuit or get too hot, airline officials say, they can cause fires and explosions. Non-rechargeable lithium metal batteries such as those in cameras and flashlights are a concern, too.

From 1991 through early April of this year, batteries and electronic devices powered by batteries were linked to 113 incidents involving “smoke, fire, extreme heat or explosion” on passenger and cargo planes, according to Federal Aviation Administration figures.

http://www.fairwarni...reat-on-planes/

In April, Tokyo police and fire officials rushed to a baggage area at Narita airport after a curling iron powered by a lithium-ion battery caused a passenger's checked bag to burst into flames as it was being shuttled from an American Airlines jet to a connecting flight.

http://www.usatoday....ries16_CV_N.htm

Older article:
http://www.pcworld.c...ms_explode.html

Colson-Inam advises users not to leave a laptop or cell phone in the trunk of a car where the temperature can easily go above 140 degrees Fahrenheit, the point at which a thermal runaway can start.

I know, I know. The lawyers would say the phone itself didn't cause the fire (you can still feel good about your phone!). The lawyers would say use of the phone didn't cause the fire (you can still feel good about your use of your phone!). The lawyers would say a faulty battery in another ordinary electronic device could just as easily have caused the fire as the faulty battery in the cell phone. The lawyers would say it's unfair to discriminate against cell phones since the battery in a curling iron is just as likely to burst into flame while I'm pumping gas as is the battery in my cell phone. The lawyers would say batteries in portable devices are of no concern at the gas pump since automobiles themselves contain large batteries that could be faulty.

Obviously a bad fire is an unlikely possibility, requiring as it does a faulty battery in close proximity to a suitably flammable environment. But it's definitely possible that the batteries in a portable device such as cell phone could trigger a fire if the conditions were right for it. But then it's also possible that somebody could toss a Molotov cocktail on you while you're filling up.

#27 eseedhouse

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 08:23 PM

Of course, as we all know,internet videos can never be faked!

If the discarded Pom bottle is chipped but otherwise intact, can we reasonably classify it as broken glass?


No we can't, as far as I am concerned. If it is still structurally intact it isn't "broken glass" it is a damaged bottle.

As is often the case, people get hung up on semantics.


Yes, that's true. But in this case I don't think it is I who is getting hung up on semantics. I think it is you who is falling for a semantic error known as "equivocation". But that's just my opinion.

#28 eseedhouse

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 08:26 PM

In fact, the batteries in devices like cell phones can and do short circuit and start fires.


You can make some nice big sparks by shorting the two terminals in a 9 volt battery. And a battery along with a couple of alligator clip wires could easily be a handy way to start a fire in the bush.

But be careful to keep yourself insulated or the energy might take a shortcut through your body...

#29 Mike K.

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 09:17 PM

^thanks, Ed, for the advice.

This discussion is going nowhere. I'm closing the thread until everyone cools off.

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#30 Mike K.

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:33 AM

This thread is now open. Let's keep the discussion civil.

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#31 Dimitrios

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:54 PM

Big day in the Cariboo & NW province:


Roads are Hwys 17 and 1, Prince George in the top right of pic. MODIS satellite fire detections in Google Earth from the past week (yellow), past 24 hrs (orange) and today (red).

#32 http

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 07:51 PM

Big day in the Cariboo & NW province:
[ snip snip snip ]
Roads are Hwys 17 and 1, Prince George in the top right of pic. MODIS satellite fire detections in Google Earth from the past week (yellow), past 24 hrs (orange) and today (red).


Would that not be Highways 16 and 97? Hwy. 1 goes east from Kamloops.

Mighty impressive fire season. Fear.
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#33 Dimitrios

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:07 PM

Right - Fraser Canyon hwy. Williams Lake is somewhere at the bottom of the pic.

Yah, this season started out slow, but has picked up strongly in the past few weeks. BC just passed 270,000 hectares burned this year, which looks like it's kind of a record - more than during the 2003 'Firestorm', and the most in a decade or more.

http://bcwildfire.ca...ory/average.htm

Of course, the real story in terms of area burned this year has been Saskatchewan, even though it hasn't really made the news at all. Over 1.7 million hectares burned so far, almost all in the remote north.

http://www.ciffc.ca/...ire/current.php

Thankfully, I don't this year has been too bad in terms of evacuations and communities affected.

#34 HB

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

Forgot until now that I had shot this video.

YaG1SBkFkTk

#35 Mike K.

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

Thanks for sharing. That's a unique sight for these parts.

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#36 Dimitrios

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:30 AM

Strong start to the season; currently the highest spring fire danger conditions in BC since 2009. This weekend should shut things down for a few days at least, but this sort of weather in May gets people pretty antsy for the summer.

http://bcwildfire.ca...AllFires=1&FC=0

#37 sebberry

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 09:31 AM

Listening to CFAX right now and it appears that the BC government has cancelled contracts to use the Martin Mars water bomber after this summer, instead opting to use much smaller planes.

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#38 Dimitrios

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

Several homes in the Ashcroft area have been evacuated due to a fire that is burning in the area.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-wildfires.html

A separate article stated that the fire was 11 square kilometres. It's 1100 ha. There is a rather big difference.

#39 Mr_E_Squirrel

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:48 AM

Looks like Cfax and Seberry had the infoy at the start of the summer two lines above and the AV times has more info today..


From the Alberni Times

The Hawaii Mars water bomber as lost its contract with the government and will no longer fight fires in B.C.

The Coulson Group announced today that the Hawaii Mars after 53 years serving the Province of British Columbia in wildfire suppression will no longer receive a standing offer contract by the B.C. government.

"it has been an honour, over the last seven years, to operate the aircraft and continue the tradition of the past men and women who have safely operated and supported the Hawaii and Philippine Mars in firefighting roles," said Coulson Group CEO Wayne Coulson.

"The commitment to excellence that the Mars operation has displayed over the last 53 years is outstanding, given the difficult firefighting missions faced in Canada, the United States, and Mexico. There will never be another aircraft that can kill a wildfire like the Mars with its ability to directly attack fire with a pay load of 27,000 litres."

The Mars has flown over 4000 missions dropping in excess of 8,000 loads and holds the world's record for dropping a massive 220,000 US gallons in nine flight hours.

http://www.avtimes.n...ntract-1.607294

#40 LJ

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

"There will never be another aircraft that can kill a wildfire like the Mars with its ability to directly attack fire with a pay load of 27,000 litres."

I love the Mars but a DC10 tanker has a payload of 45,000 litres.
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