3426 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

I am not sure why any tourist - local, Canadian or otherwise - would choose to come to the City of Victoria right now.

[Victoria Watcher]

I am not sure why any tourist - local, Canadian or otherwise - would choose to come to the City of Victoria right now.

 

well maybe that's the thing.  with no theatre concerts or sports maybe there is less to do in victoria right now.  up-island is probably a more outdoorsy place.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 September 2020 - 01:20 PM.

[Barrrister]

I know at least one of the B&B operators are advising their guests to avoid downtown and go to either Oak Bay or Sidney. Good advise but it reflects badly on the city. 

Edited by Barrrister, 09 September 2020 - 01:27 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

we are lucky that the harbour authority runs the lower causeway and fisherman's wharf or we'd probably have campers there.

[Mike K.]

Who controls the former Capital Commission’s land holdings now? It was dissolved in 2013 and formerly oversaw quite a number of green spaces and heritage assets in the downtown area.

[TwilightZoneVictoria]

No festivals like we usually have like the Dragon Boating. Haven't really seen buskers out. No symphony splash. Museum and art gallery are open I think?

 

Wonder if people even feel safe sitting on patios with all that's going on. One of my friends just texted me something about someone trying to grab someone's cell phone out of their hand then ripped off to Beacon Hill. Geeze.

 

well maybe that's the thing.  with no theatre concerts or sports maybe there is less to do in victoria right now.  up-island is probably a more outdoorsy place.  

[Mike K.]

That was at a bank (CIBC), where a man tried to make off with a cellphone.

At that time a member of the public at the exact opposite corner of the block where the attempted theft occurred was spat on by a man, who then got into a confrontation with others. The two incidents were unrelated.

[vortoozo]

Ah, found it. MoCA test passed.

Back in 2006 Frank Bourree said there was:

- https://vibrantvicto...s-a-conference/

 

There's no proof in that. One particular conference cancelled in 2006 citing that we're becoming like Vancouver in terms of panhandling and that there's too many souvenir shops. That doesn't pass the smell test. Vancouver has way more conference volume than us. And souvenir shops point to the fact that the destination is appealing to tourists, not the opposite.

 

Summer isn't really conference season anyway. Government travel is also well down in the summer on an average year, and Victoria is a government city. Those rooms get full of overseas tourists instead. As a few people have mentioned upthread, a huge source of our summer visits has been cut off (foreign travellers). That's why Vancouver and Victoria are most affected. Rarely would you see a Clipper guest at a hotel in Nanaimo or the Okanagan.

Edited by vortoozo, 09 September 2020 - 07:52 PM.

[Mike K.]

Well, the proof is in the statement from the organizer who cancelled his conference, and why he cancelled it.

Victoria has lost thousands of hotel rooms since 2010. Literally thousands. And our occupancy this summer is 1/3 that of Nanaimo’s.

We’re supposed to be a jewel of a destination among Canadians, and we can’t even push above 50% ccupancy during a vacation-in-Canada summer with loads of money being offered by governments, cheap fuel, and lodging discounts?

Something’s not right here.

[vortoozo]

Most people I am seeing in Nanaimo, Parksville and the west coast are from the mainland and Alberta. I am sure that there are lots of locals camping but that does not figure into hotel occupancy.
 

 

I work with hotels across the province and Western Canada. I can't provide concrete figures because they are confidential to our business. I can tell you that stays at the properties I work with both in Nanaimo and Victoria were overwhelmingly of BC origin in July & August. Alberta origin was under 10%. US origin was nearly non-existent.

 

Last year in the same period, the hotel in Victoria was about half Canadian origin, the rest US & International. The Nanaimo property was about 3/4 Canadian origin. This supports the theory that the primary reason that Victoria hotel occupancy is further down this year due to borders being closed.

 

Homelessness is on the radar of the hospitality industry in terms of being a good community citizen. Victoria-based hospitality organizations that I have been involved with have been supporters of service providers such as Mustard Seed & Our Place. However, it simply is not a trend that has been proven to be resulting in decreased occupancies. Over the past several years hotel occupancy and rates in Victoria have been increasing steadily, as homelessness has become more of a problem. Certainly I would not argue with that data that "increased homelessness has resulted in higher occupancy and rates". Suggesting that the opposite is true, that lower occupancy is a result of increased homelessness is equally statistically valid - aka, it's not.

[vortoozo]

Well, the proof is in the statement from the organizer who cancelled his conference, and why he cancelled it.

Victoria has lost thousands of hotel rooms since 2010. Literally thousands. And our occupancy this summer is 1/3 that of Nanaimo’s.

We’re supposed to be a jewel of a destination among Canadians, and we can’t even push above 50% ccupancy during a vacation-in-Canada summer with loads of money being offered by governments, cheap fuel, and lodging discounts?

Something’s not right here.

 

That's not proof of a trend. That's a single conference that mentioned it as one of multiple reasons, and didn't provide a very good argument at that. Would he also not host a conference in Vancouver?

[Love the rock]

That's not proof of a trend. That's a single conference that mentioned it as one of multiple reasons, and didn't provide a very good argument at that. Would he also not host a conference in Vancouver?

What would you except as proof . 

[Mike K.]

We are not Vancouver and shouldn’t be compared to it.

Despite New York’s crime, it was still an international draw in the 70s and 80s.

Small cities like Victoria don’t have the draw New York or Chicago or Vancouver do, despite their challenges. We need to work harder, longer and be more accommodating for every visitor we entice to come here.

And now that I think about it, Victoria might actually be very reliant on Vancouver for tourism. Poor tourism numbers in Vancouver seem to have translated into poor tourism in Victoria, ie the international traveller didn’t make the side trip to Victoria. And Canadians just weren’t inclined to visit in numbers we expected they would.

[Nparker]

...Victoria might actually be very reliant on Vancouver for tourism. Poor tourism numbers in Vancouver seem to have translated into poor tourism in Victoria, ie the international traveller didn’t make the side trip to Victoria. And Canadians just weren’t inclined to visit in numbers we expected they would.

I think you're probably right.

[Mike K.]

The elephant in the room, of course, is the thousands of rooms that have been removed from the hotel inventory in the City of Victoria in recent years.

If not for the closures we’ve seen, one wonders just how low the occupancy rates would be in a normal year.

[vortoozo]

What would you except as proof . 

 

A survey of a random sample of people that have visited Victoria in the past asking for reasons that they weren't planning on returning this year, for instance.

 

Among reasons you'll likely find ranked high are: borders closed, not travelling out of province, not travelling for business, non-essential government employee not travelling, lower income this year, prefer to travel to a destination with less people and more outdoorsy focus, no convention/conference this year, no sports meet this year, no training event this year, no concert to attend, don't want to get on a plane, not travelling to stay near the hospital because procedure has been cancelled, not travelling because of health reasons... all of these affect the other destinations too, but proportionally much higher Victoria (and Vancouver) than other regional destinations like up island. Homelessness issue would be so far down the list that it probably wouldn't even crack the top 20, if it appeared at all.

 

Part of my job involves determining who is travelling to each destination, what is motivating them, what rates they are willing to pay, etc. Apart from someone's random theory on this forum with no proof at all, I've not seen a single indication that this has contributed to Victoria's lower hotel occupancy. I have, however, found evidence to support the reasons I've mentioned above. In most cases it's confidential or proprietary information that I cannot divulge but I would be happy to come back and update this thread if any of the above does come across my desk from a public source.

[vortoozo]

And now that I think about it, Victoria might actually be very reliant on Vancouver for tourism. Poor tourism numbers in Vancouver seem to have translated into poor tourism in Victoria, ie the international traveller didn’t make the side trip to Victoria. And Canadians just weren’t inclined to visit in numbers we expected they would.

 

Victoria isn't as reliant on Vancouver as you would think. When the Olympics were in Vancouver, operators in Victoria prepared for a large amont of expected spill over that never materialized.

Edited by vortoozo, 09 September 2020 - 09:35 PM.

[Rob Randall]

That was ten years ago. I'm observing two groups of travellers these days: short stay vacationers, Vancouver with a side trip to Victoria and long trippers--Vancouver/Whistler and Victoria/Tofino.

[Victoria Watcher]

go sit at the local on a normal summer. you will find lots of Americans up on the clipper for one two or three nights. almost none of them will mention up island plans.

[spanky123]

go sit at the local on a normal summer. you will find lots of Americans up on the clipper for one two or three nights. almost none of them will mention up island plans.

 

Not for one of two nights. I think when those visitors start reading about random stabbings, harassments, closed shops and aggressive panhandling then they will reconsider a trip here.