176 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

I think you need to get some more legal advice. Do you really believe you can refuse people entry to your establishment based on their race, sex or sexual orientation and not face legal action? It was not too long ago that the "beer parlour" was exclusively for males and some entertainment venues did not admit certain religious or ethnic denominations. That is why we have human rights legislation. To protect people from blanket discrimination like this.

Sorry, I perhaps phrased it wrong. I can refuse entry to absolutely anyone (except police and authorities such as health, bylaw, liquor or fire officials etc.) and give no reason for the refusal. And they have no legal recourse to somehow get an order to allow them entry. That's how the law is written. This law only applies to liquor-primary establishments.

[Roger]

According to this article in the Times Colonist the following Vicroria bars are participating in the BarWatch program:

Bars swiping IDs

• Element Nightclub
• Lucky Bar
• Barcode Nightclub
• Upstairs Cabaret
• Plan B Nightclub
• Evolution Nightclub
• Soprano’s Karaoke and Sports Bar
• Social Club
• Touch Nightclub

Bars that are participating in Bar Watch but not swiping IDs

• Darcy’s Pub
• Smith’s Bar and Restaurant
• Bard and Banker Public House
• Irish Times Pub

If you care about your privacy just boycott the bars that start swiping ID's again. Let them know why you are taking your business elsewhere. Encourage your friends and co-workers to do the same. When entering one of the BarWatch establishments that respects your privacy let them know that they are getting your business because they don't swipe ID's.

[sebberry]

Any 19-25 year old trying to get into a nightclub to get loaded up on booze and and get laid (98% of the customer base) couldn't care less about data handling policies and will not boycott the above listed establishments.

Those of us who would boycott them would just get laughed at.


What proof is there that Treoscope will destroy data to an unrecoverable state after 24 hours? What security measures does Treoscope employ to ensure that while my data is in their system it doesn't get stolen?

I don't care what you say about the potential for guns, etc... night time establishments are places where people of questionable character and low moral values congregate. Guns and stabbings are part of the risk, much like any extreme sport/activity carries associated risks.

[VicHockeyFan]

What proof is there that Treoscope will destroy data to an unrecoverable state after 24 hours? What security measures does Treoscope employ to ensure that while my data is in their system it doesn't get stolen?

I guess I'll just go back to my car rental analogy. If you rented a car last week at Budget, I could probably break into their office tonight and steal much more info than the Treoscope system has on you, and I won't need to be a computer expert to get it, likely just a clerks log-on #. Same if you have a membership at the corner video rental store.

Just try to break into a bar and see how well you do.

And online hackers have easier marks, with more info available than Treoscope.

What proof do I have that the hostess that IDs you at Irish Times isn't a prodigious savant that remembers all your DL info indefinitely?

[Roger]

VicHockeyFan,

Privacy, storage and deletion of the data collected is only one area of concern with TreoScope. I have posted other concerns about abuse (post #89) of the system and you have not responded. Can I assume that you agree with me?

[VicHockeyFan]

VicHockeyFan,

Privacy, storage and deletion of the data collected is only one area of concern with TreoScope. I have posted other concerns about abuse (post #89) of the system and you have not responded. Can I assume that you agree with me?

I guess you don't like this then:

http://www.downtownv...a/retailcop.php

http://www.sectorpri...-suspected.html

[Roger]

I guess you don't like this then:

http://www.sectorpri...-suspected.html

No that system is OK because it has police oversight of the pictures in the database:

Victoria police Const. Lori Beauvais is the site administrator for the Victoria businesses, essentially vetting submitted video images to ensure that they relate to criminal activity and an investigation, thereby keeping the distribution of the images in compliance with privacy laws.


The TreoScope system has no such vetting or oversight by police or judicial authorities. As I posted earlier it is all based on database alerts by bar owners and their security personnel who could care less about the possibility of mistaken "blacklisting" of their customers.

Here is what Scott Gurney, spokesman of the Victoria Bar and Cabaret Association, thinks about customer privacy: link
“What I would like to see happen is to have an ID scanning system in place that collects enough information that if someone decides to come in and engage in criminal behaviour, we can track them down, charge them, convict them and be rid of them from the public … if you want to live a private life in anonymity, then go live in the woods,” Gurney said.

[Bob Fugger]

According to this article in the Times Colonist the following Vicroria bars are participating in the BarWatch program.

I know I have a lot of choices for where to get drunk in Victoria: thanks for helping me narrow the field a bit.

[mat]

Have things changed since the ruling this afternoon by BC's privacy commissioner?

From News 1130

VANCOUVER, B.C. - British Columbia's privacy commissioner says he's satisfied with changes to a program that scans driver's licences of people going into bars - and stops them from coming back if they cause trouble.

Privacy commissioner David Loukidelis raised concerns last month about software developed by Vancouver-based TreoScope Technologies Inc. when he ruled that a nightclub in that city violated customers' privacy by scanning driver's licences and keeping the information on them.

The EnterSafe scanning technology is mandatory for all clubs belonging to the Barwatch program, which is set up to curb violence in and around nightclubs by screening customers.

Loukidelis said in July that TreoScope wasn't allowed to store licence numbers in its database, which the company said was encrypted and accessible only to authorized users, such as police.

Now, TreoScope has announced changes that have the endorsement of the commissioner.

The company said the software will now only collect names, photographs, dates of birth and the gender of customers. Driver's licence numbers won't be recorded.

TreoScope will also delete that information with 24 hours, unless the person is accused of being violent or causing problems. In that case, the information will be kept and can be shared with other bars using the program.

Loukidelis said the changes satisfy his concerns.

"This means only information necessary to identify the bad apples will be kept, and that's good for all other bar customers," Loukidelis said in a news release.

[VicHockeyFan]

^I'm not sure if the software is ready already, or not. When it is, the system can receive updates online, so it can all be done at once. Everyone is just gonna need to fire up their systems and accept the update.

[sebberry]

The only thing this does is put the bars who AREN'T using the Treoscope system at greater risk of catering to violent people.

[VicHockeyFan]

The only thing this does is put the bars who AREN'T using the Treoscope system at greater risk of catering to violent people.

That's the idea. Victoria is happy to be rid of the element that is invading the TapHouse in Langford now.

[Holden West]

The Taphouse should definitely be part of Barwatch because I know for a fact that and are and that on a regular basis.

[Newlywednotnearlydead]

That's good news, I think this was a fair compromise for both sides of the privacy/safety issue.

[http]

That's good news, I think this was a fair compromise for both sides of the privacy/safety issue.

Why do you think that the two "sides" require compromise? I know there is a popular idea that the two are opposed or somehow incompatible, but I don't get it (or buy it) myself.

[sebberry]

Will everyone without magnetically scannable ID be denied access?

[VicHockeyFan]

Will everyone without magnetically scannable ID be denied access?

No. Passport, US or international ID, Native status card, military ID all acceptable.

[sebberry]

No. Passport, US or international ID, Native status card, military ID all acceptable.

And if a gangster simply presents one of those other pieces of ID? How does he get flagged?

[VicHockeyFan]

And if a gangster simply presents one of those other pieces of ID? How does he get flagged?

Name and birthdate after manual entry will bring up a picture if he is flagged, compare his face to the screen image then decide if he is the guy. Manual entry is an option for other IDs, or IDs with mag strip gone.

[Roger]

Name and birthdate after manual entry will bring up a picture if he is flagged, compare his face to the screen image then decide if he is the guy. Manual entry is an option for other IDs, or IDs with mag strip gone.

I think you will find more of those magnetic stripes aren't working in the fall. Wait till the UVic Martlet publishes a story on how a fridge magnet wipes out the stripe and protects privacy while still permitting bar entry. Heck it might even go viral on Twitter. Sure you can do manual entry but it will slow down the lineup and customers will move on.

Disabling the stripe is a great way to protect your privacy. TreoScope may have your name and DOB but no access to the other data on the stripe. They are not supposed to record the other stuff but I don't trust this company one bit. Even data that is supposed to be deleted after 24 hours will probably turn up with a police warrant (i.e. backup disk).

VHF - I think you will have to wait for a national ID card before you have a foolproof system of surveillance and customer profiling. It won't be long if the Liberals get into power. They were working on one before Harper came in. And then you can join the police and other businesses by saying "Your papers please".