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Harmonized Sales Tax (HST) discussion


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#981 jonny

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

[quote name='Mike K.']
You're saying small businesses are the backbone of the economy. I'm saying it's the producers and exporters that are the true generators of wealth in this country. Small businesses, unless they bring a net profit back into this country from foreign customers, simply recirculate wealth by servicing local consumers and each transaction between that business and a consumer devalues money through taxation (which is now higher with the HST). Government of course benefits from higher taxation on a wider array of goods and services.
[quote]

First off, Mike, most exporters are small businesses, so I don’t know why you are trying to argue the two as mutually exclusive.

Small businesses drive employment, and employ far more people than large businesses, including multi-nationals. There is absolutely no disputing this. These facts can be found all over the place.

Genuine wealth is only created by the combination of labour with land, capital and technology. There is no requirement for foreign transactions to create wealth. Wealth can be cash, but generally it is seen as an accumulation of capital (physical and investment). When China buys coal from Canada, it doesn’t result in China becoming less wealthy and Canada the converse. There is no finite amount of wealth in the world; just like there is no finite amount of money in the world (banks create money through fractional reserve banking and the money multiplier).

#982 jonny

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:36 AM

But for the majority of working folks who live paycheque-to-paycheque, who have no savings now, and likely never will, increased consumption taxes are highly regressive. The more they pay in taxes on everyday goods and services the less they have left to save.


I don't know what proportion of the population is working folks living paycheque to paycheque, but I would guess that it is the minority, and if I were in charge I would not be making economic policy because of the minority, but instead I would be focused on the majority of people and what is the better policy overall.

#983 Nparker

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

I don't know what proportion of the population is working folks living paycheque to paycheque, but I would guess that it is the minority...


And I'd guess that you'd be wrong. If it's not at least 50% of the working population then at very least it's a large minority. Let's see what a Google search returns...

A "survey by the Canadian Payroll Association found 47 per cent saying they would be in dire financial straits if their pay was delayed as little as a week."

Yeah so it's a pretty large minority.:(

#984 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

And I'd guess that you'd be wrong. If it's not at least 50% of the working population then at very least it's a large minority. Let's see what a Google search returns...

A "survey by the Canadian Payroll Association found 47 per cent saying they would be in dire financial straits if their pay was delayed as little as a week."

Yeah so it's a pretty large minority.:(


That's what they say, when asked in the poll. But surprisingly, those that do lose jobs don't immediately become homeless or turn to bank-robbing while on their EI waiting period. People cope.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#985 Nparker

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

Agreed, people find ways to cope, (at least in the short term) but no matter how you slice it a large number of Canadians have no substantial savings on which to fall back during a financial emergency. :(

#986 jonny

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

Agreed, people find ways to cope, (at least in the short term) but no matter how you slice it a large number of Canadians have no substantial savings on which to fall back during a financial emergency. :(


It would really suck for anybody to miss even one paycheque, but the majority of poeple out there with houses and cars and many toys would not be in the soup kitchen line days after being laid off.

#987 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

Agreed, people find ways to cope, (at least in the short term) but no matter how you slice it a large number of Canadians have no substantial savings on which to fall back during a financial emergency. :(


That's what EI is for, we agree then.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#988 drt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

The fact that so few people have any significant savings is an argument in FAVOR of higher consumption taxes. The fact that it unduly affects the poor should be addressed separately. Maybe through some sort of HST rebate program...

#989 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:47 AM

The fact that so few people have any significant savings is an argument in FAVOR of higher consumption taxes. The fact that it unduly affects the poor should be addressed separately. Maybe through some sort of HST rebate program...


There IS a freaking HST rebate program for low-income people, everyone forgets that.


Those with low and modest incomes receive a GST credit of up to $381 annually
The B.C. HST credit provides up to $230 annually
1.1 million British Columbians get quarterly B.C. HST Credit payments
Low income British Columbians also receive $115.50 per adult annually through the Low Income Climate Action Tax Credit

That’s up to $726.50 every year.


PST in BC - Lower Income British Columbians

$726.50 is the HST back on $6000.00 in purchases each year. Not too shabby.



Strangely, it is also the exact total of Sparky's bar tab at the Dec 2010 VV Xmas party. :cheers:
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#990 Sparky

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:02 AM

:)

#991 drt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:28 AM

Haha, I know there's an HST rebate program. I was trying to make a joke.

#992 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:30 AM

Haha, I know there's an HST rebate program. I was trying to make a joke.


Oh Lord, right over my head... :)
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#993 Nparker

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:42 AM

The fact that so few people have any significant savings is an argument in FAVOR of higher consumption taxes...


I do not recognize the spelling of this word. Did you mean FAVOUR? Or did you intend to have your American leanings show? :D

#994 drt

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

Tough economy. I can't spare the vowls.

#995 E-P-G

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

The price of my haircuts went up steadily over the last several years, but hasn't gone up once during the HST.

Perhaps in some cases it isn't lowering prices, but rather preventing some prices from increasing as soon as they normally would have?

Haircuts - mine did go up under the HST. My barbershop (a loooong established outfit downtown) increased the price when the HST came in. It was a very small (I'd almost say 'token') increase, but coming after something like 10 to 20 years not increasing the price at all (i.e. at least a couple of times when it would have made sense to, but this owner held firm)... well, for me it just perfectly symbolized the bad timing of the hit on folks given the economic times, even more so than the examples with much higher increases.

(By the way, hi all - long time reader, first time poster)

#996 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

WELCOME to the (posting side) of the forum, E-P-G!
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#997 sebberry

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

I paid $900 in HST for some car repairs. Knowing the markup on some of the parts, I don't think the savings from the HST for the business were passed on to me.

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#998 Mike K.

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

Jesus, Sebberry, you spent $7,500 + HST on car repairs? You weren't in a wreck, were you?

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#999 sebberry

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:55 PM

No, it had a few bad valves. Plus all the other bits that were coming up for replacement and some elective work. Beats buying a new car...

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#1000 Nparker

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

...I don't think the savings from the HST for the business were passed on to me.


Nor to anyone else since July 1, 2010.:mad:

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