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City of Victoria looks to rein in horse-drawn carriages


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#201 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:38 AM

The two primary horse carriage business owners made it pretty clear that they couldn't ever afford to keep, feed, and tend to the 70 or 80 horses working as draught animals in the tourist industry if the businesses were shut down.

Those 80 Victoria horses would join the hundreds of other horses that already get shipped to Japan for meat.

 

The net result of Isitt's motion is that all the Victoria based draught horses would most likely be slaughtered.


Edited by Cassidy, 22 May 2019 - 05:38 AM.


#202 mbjj

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:07 AM

Serve one of those horses up for Isitt to choke on.

 

I'm not surprised how much he's mistepped. My daughter knew him at UVic and has always said he's a dolt.



#203 Sparky

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:32 AM

While I am a firm believer in free speech, one must always remember to be respectful in one's commentary.

 

We as moderators asked a long time ago for people to be respectful when referring to members of public office. It is one thing to disagree with political beliefs, and it is quite another to call people names because of that. 

 

Please, if you want to get a point across, focus on the topic as opposed to the person.  

 

Hoping that someone chokes on horse meat and referring to them as a dolt does not accomplish anything.


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#204 tedward

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:36 AM

next up those animals kept in beacon hill park just for human amusement.

 

The Children's Farm regularly comes under attack by the radical animal rights crowd. Let's not remind them. Maybe instead we can direct them to the oppression of keeping dogs and cats leashed and imprisoned in private homes? ;)


Edited by tedward, 22 May 2019 - 07:38 AM.

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#205 RFS

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:41 AM

The Children's Farm regularly comes under attack by the radical animal rights crowd. Let's not remind them. Maybe instead we can direct them to the oppression of keeping dogs and cats leashed and imprisoned in private homes? ;)


Yeah exactly. Your castrated "best friend" has Stockholm syndrome.
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#206 Nparker

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:43 AM

I propose we phase out the CoV's civic politicians and replace them with e-councillors.


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#207 29er Radio

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:43 AM

Not too sure if this has been brought up yet, but I went to the BC SPCA site to see if they had highlighted the horse carriage industry as one of the issues they were keen to stop. Nothing. They had plenty of pictures of horses on farms and have a specific search tab for cruelty and there was nothing there either. It is my understanding that they are not whole heartedly behind the horse carriage business, but seemingly aren't prepared to weigh in on their website either. It is also my understanding what when the mayor and council convened at the beginning of their second year of this term to brain storm what each councilor wanted to highlight as an issue the council needed to get behind, nothing was mentioned by any of the anti carriage councilors about banning the carriages. 


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#208 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

While I am a firm believer in free speech, one must always remember to be respectful in one's commentary.

We as moderators asked a long time ago for people to be respectful when referring to members of public office. It is one thing to disagree with political beliefs, and it is quite another to call people names because of that. 

Please, if you want to get a point across, focus on the topic as opposed to the person.  

Hoping that someone chokes on horse meat and referring to them as a dolt does not accomplish anything.

That would be entirely a unique approach to talking about politicians, one that would (to my experience) be terribly unique to VV.

 

When one enters politics (as Isitt has), one gives up the right to be made immune from personal insults and personal comments as to their job performance or personal bent. That's not how politics works.

In Isitt's case, his personality, and his personal opinions are an integral part of his platform, and thus any given VV reader should be able to (without prosecution or critique from moderators) be able to express in a similar fashion their own personal opinions about polarizing politicians with highly personal agendas being masked as "political agendas" ... you know, politicians like Isitt.

 

It's terribly disingenuous to ask VV readers and posters to "respect" Isitt as a person, when he so very clearly does things, and says things that should (rightfully so) generate absolutely no personal respect from VV readers and posters who would profoundly disagree on a regular basis with his antics.

Isitt does things and says things that blatantly disrespect giant swaths of COV citizenry, and commits these gaffes on a regular basis.

 

I would like additional clarity on this "new" Vibrant Victoria policy (which has hints of sucking up to politicians) ... because it's one I would have no intention of ever following ... and endlessly pissing off the moderators here on VV wouldn't be part of my personal agenda.


Edited by Cassidy, 22 May 2019 - 03:49 PM.

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#209 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:56 PM

Serve one of those horses up for Isitt to choke on.

 

I'm not surprised how much he's mistepped. My daughter knew him at UVic and has always said he's a dolt.

 

the post (above) was not removed.  

 

but i can see how a more constructive post would have performed better for everyone.  including the author of this one.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 May 2019 - 03:57 PM.


#210 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:02 PM

Hoping that someone chokes on horse meat and referring to them as a dolt does not accomplish anything.

Really?

How about Ben isitt on Christmas, or the Invictus Games, or the Police component of the Muncipal budget, or property development, or capitalism, or free transit, or allowing free camping in all public parks, or the John A. statue, or (the subject of this thread) banning horse drawn carriages resulting in the slaughter of almost 100 horses.

 

How about Isitt on making the entire COV speed limit 30KPH, or any one of 100 other stupid or ridiculous things he's said or done as a public figure, and done while drawing a wage from the public purse?

 

Thank goodness that most folks won't hesitate to look at politicians behaving like idiots, or making idiotic comments ... and to then call them "idiots".

In Isitt's case, I know many people who wouldn't hesitate to say it right to his face.

 

As a politician, (thank goodness) you reap what you sew.

Isitt deserves no quarter from anybody on VV who chooses to "tell it like it is", and speak their own truth to what Isitt is passing off on a regular basis as "his truth".


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#211 Rob Randall

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:08 PM

Personal insults do not add weight to informed criticism. It's just the dreck you have to slog through in search of a cohesive argument.


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#212 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:19 PM

Personal insults do not add weight to informed criticism.

Except in politics, where it's not only "the norm"around the world, it's accepted across the board as a by-product of putting your name and face in front of the public, and then asking that same public to pay you from the public purse.

 

In addition, VV is a web forum, not a source of the finest writing (or even finest humanity) the world has to offer.

 

On web forums, people express their opinions on a regular basis as they relate to politicians, and those people do so from their own perspective, rendering their honest opinions of the politician as a person.

Often times, the opinion these folks might wish to share will be that any given politician is "a dolt" ... so be it ... such is the purpose of a web forum from which a large portion of posts relate to comments about local and regional politics.

 

But more to the point, if this is "official" VV policy, it needs to be stated clearly and unambiguously, not as an aside to a relatively innocuous post calling a highly polarizing politician "a dolt", and suggesting he choke on the meat of one of the 100 horses he'll be responsible for seeing taken to slaughter.


Edited by Cassidy, 22 May 2019 - 04:20 PM.


#213 Rob Randall

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:31 PM

Again, there's nothing there that informs the debate. It's just angry ranting.

 

Believe me, I hear a lot of negative criticism of Isitt, some of it directly from the folks at City Hall. And I agree with it. But he's clearly not an idiot. And though he grinds the gears of a lot of locals he remains the city's most popular politician.


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#214 RFS

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:34 PM

Again, there's nothing there that informs the debate. It's just angry ranting.

But he's clearly not an idiot..


Idk He strikes me as a solid 90, maybe 95 IQ guy
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#215 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:41 PM

 But he's clearly not an idiot. 

This is your personal opinion Rob, my personal opinion is that he is an idiot.

 

As always, two vastly different viewpoints, both using the same word for clarity and continuity.


Edited by Cassidy, 22 May 2019 - 04:42 PM.


#216 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:58 PM

when you read other writers that you find credible and interesting perhaps ones that write on politics do you most enjoy the writing of those that call trudeau or scheer or may or singh a moron or ones that would never use that language?



#217 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:03 PM

when you read other writers that you find credible and interesting perhaps ones that write on politics do you most enjoy the writing of those that call trudeau or scheer or may or singh a moron or ones that would never use that language?

I'm not a writer, I'm a casual poster on a local internet forum.

 

I'm not attempting to "report" anything, nor am I looking to impress ... I'm simply engaging with fellow VV posters who are residents of the region, and discussing subject matter of shared interest.


Edited by Cassidy, 22 May 2019 - 06:04 PM.

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#218 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:12 PM

i’m looking at it from the point of view of other readers here. that read your work. pit yourself in their shoes by thinking about writing and writers you enjoy,

#219 Nparker

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:16 PM

I do not think Ben Isitt is an idiot - despite his many idiotic actions. This is why I find him to be the most alarming member of CoV council, especially considering his Pied Piper like sway over a frightenly large segement of the local electorate.

He certainly isn't the first political figure in history to be both popular and dangerous.



#220 Cassidy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:29 PM

i’m looking at it from the point of view of other readers here. that read your work. pit yourself in their shoes by thinking about writing and writers you enjoy,

To be fair (to me), I'm not really prone to calling people rude names when I post on VV. I don't personally believe in giving politicians any quarter though, and my posts do reflect that personal sentiment.

I may be excessively opinionated on some issues, but I rarely resort to blatant name calling.

 

What does rub me the wrong way though, is being told that the policy of the forum in question is that nobody can call politicians any rude names, a sentiment I'm not personally prone to abide by.

 

The actual posts we're referencing didn't bother me in the slightest. I understand clearly what somebody means when they call a politician a"dolt", and I equally understand the line being drawn between the two points of the act of making a motion at a Council meeting to ban horse drawn carriages, and suggesting that the person who made the motion might choke on the horse meat of the horse they're responsible for seeing to the slaughter as a final result of their original motion.

I've no issues with either comment, and understand with crystal clarity where such comments come from, and equally where they're intended to go.

 

It's a mountain out of a molehill really, and "dolt" and "choke on horse meat" really don't represent much of an insult at all, and are a relatively benign way of expressing dissatisfaction with a politicians highly personal stamp on everything he says ... that is things he says while taking a bi-weekly pay cheque comprised of 100% tax dollars supplied solely by residents of the COV.


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