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Victoria Downtown Residents Association (DRA)


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#1 DrDeath

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 02:01 PM

Hello All,

I am a Harris Green resident and love living downtown but am getting frustrated by some of the issues in the area. I am pondering the idea of creating a neighbourhood association so that a) there is a stronger community in the area b) residents and merchants can identify issues and solutions and speak with a single stronger voice. I worry that if I - or somebody - doesn't do this we'll start seeing people leave the downtown core as the problems intensify.

I am a long time lurker and know that there are people from the area that check out this forum - what do you think? Do you see value in this idea? I'm not a glutton for punishment but feel I should stop *****ing and actually do something.

Join the cause?
David

#2 Roger

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 04:01 PM

Hello All,

I am a Harris Green resident and love living downtown but am getting frustrated by some of the issues in the area. I am pondering the idea of creating a neighbourhood association so that a) there is a stronger community in the area b) residents and merchants can identify issues and solutions and speak with a single stronger voice. I worry that if I - or somebody - doesn't do this we'll start seeing people leave the downtown core as the problems intensify.

I am a long time lurker and know that there are people from the area that check out this forum - what do you think? Do you see value in this idea? I'm not a glutton for punishment but feel I should stop *****ing and actually do something.

Join the cause?
David


David,

If you like to get involved with your neighbours and have a thick skin go for it. But I think you will find a lot of frustration along the way. Frankly, things have progressively gotten worse downtown for years. Many solutions and good ideas have been proposed and most have gone absolutely nowhere. There is a lot of lip service by politicians but very little action and not much financial support. We can thank individual citizens and charitable groups for providing some assistance in the most critical areas.

While I feel sympathy for the plight of the homeless I do not hold out much hope that we can turn things around for their benefit and for the residents in the downtown communities. The issues with drug addiction and the associated crime will only continue to escalate. Once the Olympic "cleanup" begins in earnest in Vancouver we can expect an increase of displaced individuals in Victoria's downtown core.

I am one of the individuals you refer to in your post. My wife and I live in James Bay and very seldom venture into downtown Victoria after dark. Crime is one concern but it is hard to enjoy an evening out when you are constantly reminded of the plight of others less fortunate. So we are making plans to leave the downtown area in the next few months.

#3 Coopershawk

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 06:32 PM

And so are we. The "beautification" of the 900 block of Pandora will only shift the activity eastward and we are making plans to leave ASAP.

#4 G-Man

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:19 PM

There already a neighbourhood association called the Downtown Residents Association. I don't think there would be any benefit to further balkanize the neighbourhoods. That said I am sure they would appreciate some of the ideas you bring forward on their association.

I disagree Roger, downtown has been getting progressively better since the early 1990s when the downtown was pretty much full of empty storefronts.

In fact the turn around in the last 10 years has been remarkable.

#5 Roger

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:50 PM

There already a neighbourhood association called the Downtown Residents Association. I don't think there would be any benefit to further balkanize the neighbourhoods. That said I am sure they would appreciate some of the ideas you bring forward on their association.

I disagree Roger, downtown has been getting progressively better since the early 1990s when the downtown was pretty much full of empty storefronts.

In fact the turn around in the last 10 years has been remarkable.


G-Man,

I respectfully disagree with you. My wife and I came to Victoria in 1995 for a vacation and really enjoyed the trip. The shops were great and we enjoyed shopping downtown and enjoying the sights. There was no graffiti, panhandlers or homeless sleeping in the doorways. I thought boy would I like to live here. We moved here in 2001 and saw a difference but still found the downtown vibrant; but it had changed for the worse. Over the last eight years I have seen the homeless population grow, can't escape being asked for money numerous times on any given trip downtown and grafitti is everywhere even on newly restored buildings. Lots of closed businesses although new ones do pop up to replace them. Walking around during the day I see lots of drug deals on the street, kids smoking crack and police loading up the paddywagon with intoxicated vagrants. Even when we walk through Beacon Hill park during the day we pass by the trash of abandoned "overnight camps" and individuals doing drugs at the picnic tables or urinating in the bushes.

So that is my experience and it is different than yours. So we will just move - there are lots of other nice places outside the downtown core to live.

#6 D.L.

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:56 PM

DrDeath, join the Downtown Residents Association! The DRA covers Harris Green as well. More info here - http://www.vibrantvi...read.php?t=1611

#7 Caramia

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:01 PM

I was involved in the street scene in the 90s. All those things existed, but there were so many abandoned buildings and ungated alleys, that there was plenty of habitat for them to exist in, and the street scene didn't intersect with normals and tourists as much except slightly along the causeway.

There is no question that downtown has really turned around in the last 10 years. We've added so many new residents, and with them, eyes on the street, a healthy retail, and lots of abandoned buildings being restored and filled with life. But with that has also come a gating of alleys, less places to sleep undisturbed, less empty buildings to retreat to and do drugs or drink... so now it is all in our faces.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#8 G-Man

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:49 AM

^ that is an interesting perspective Caramia.

Roger have you ever lived downtown?

I moved here in 1995 and worked downtown then, in fact my current work is about 2 blocks from where I had my first job in Vic.

I recognize that there are serious social issues that need to be addressed but I really do believe that Victoria is far more vibrant than it was 14 years ago.

#9 Roger

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:30 AM

^ that is an interesting perspective Caramia.

Roger have you ever lived downtown?


I have been living near the legislature in James Bay for 4 years. Is that considered "downtown" from your perspective?

#10 G-Man

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:43 AM

Yup. That would certainly count.

#11 weirdie

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:09 AM

It's always somewhat amusing to me when I hear about people who say they won't go "Downtown" at night. I live and work downtown, so not going out at night is pretty much impossible. I've never had a problem with anyone in the years that I've lived here; it's all about how you hold yourself and interacting with people appropriately.

#12 DrDeath

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:53 AM

Interesting responses. I like living downtown and would rather find solutions to some of the issues that face Harris Green than to leave. Or at least I would like to give it a try. I moved downtown because I really admire cities like Vancouver that have created a livable downtown core with young and old people, kids, access to services and park land, community art and culture and - while becoming rare - affordable housing. Victoria is an awesome place to live and we have a decent downtown and one that more people are moving to. I don't want to live in the suburbs, have to drive everywhere and be afraid of coming downtown at night (and really truly, downtown is pretty tame most nights).

So, climbing off my soap box, anyone interested in the idea of a Harris Green community association?

#13 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:56 AM

The Downtown Residents Association (DRA) represents Harris Green (as others have already mentioned). Splitting it further wouldn't be in HG's interest, imnsho. Talk to Rob Randall - message him, he's on the forum. He's the current chair of the DRA - he can introduce you to other members who live in HG. You could talk to them and get their input.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#14 DrDeath

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:03 AM

There already a neighbourhood association called the Downtown Residents Association. I don't think there would be any benefit to further balkanize the neighbourhoods. That said I am sure they would appreciate some of the ideas you bring forward on their association.

I disagree Roger, downtown has been getting progressively better since the early 1990s when the downtown was pretty much full of empty storefronts.

In fact the turn around in the last 10 years has been remarkable.

G-Man - I agree about balkanizing the downtown into neighbourhoods but I think associations like the one in North Park and Fairfield do a really good job of creating community with events and services for residents and - while I could be missing it - I just don't see a lot of this from the Downtown Residents Association. So, maybe there is an opportunity for these community associations to work together with the Downtown Residents Association or maybe one group acts as an advocacy group for downtown residents and another acts to create some cohesion, work on shared community values among residents. I don't want to re-create the wheel (and think I am probably in for a world of pain even thinking about starting something like this) but just want to actually do something other than complain about the problems downtown.

#15 victorian fan

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 11:46 AM

You may be interested in this (if you haven't already seen it)

http://www2.canada.c...fc-2f236b61b83e

#16 aastra

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:24 PM

My wife and I came to Victoria in 1995 for a vacation and really enjoyed the trip. The shops were great and we enjoyed shopping downtown and enjoying the sights. There was no graffiti, panhandlers or homeless sleeping in the doorways.


Everyone who moves to Victoria seems to idealize their first moments and then complain about how everything went sour shortly thereafter. I can assure you, panhandling was an issue well prior to 1995. It seems like it's been an issue my entire life. I can recall a rather ugly incident of aggressive panhandling inside a shoe store when I was a little kid.

In my opinion the panhandling situation has hardly changed at all in the past 30+ years.

And there have always been people sleeping on the streets. We spent a lot of time riding around downtown when we were kids and there were plenty of sleeping bag people even back then. It wasn't unusual to encounter them beyond downtown, too (although it was't as common as it is today).

I'll grant you that they weren't as in-your-face as they are now. The situation has definitely worsened (along with the drug problem). But it's silly to pretend that they weren't there.

#17 Chris J

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:22 PM

I know that the North Park Neighbourhood Association is also involved in the Pandora Ave. Good Neighbours Agreement. I don't know much about them though. Sufficed to say there are a lot of stakeholders that are working together to some greater or lesser degree to take these issues on.
I can understand the frustration that Dr.Death is feeling. Getting involved is certainly better for the community as a whole than moving on. Though it can be a hard and further frustrating road. The issues in that community are not simple.
Overall, though, there is only so much that the neighbours, businesses, service providers and city hall can do, even at the greatest level of collaboration. Funding and leadership from the province and the feds to cope with a variety of social issues is not forthcoming, and so any work we do on a grassroots or municipal political level with not yeild much if the contributing factors are not managed properly by the higher levels of government.
Which is not to say I am a supporter of more government intervention, but given the role that the government has taken on in our lives in the past 150 years, they have certain responsibilities to meet, or their actions just contribute to a worsening of the problem.
Certainly it seems like the City of Victoria's tactic is to keep moving people along.
If success at community organizing in Harris Green means that you'll be able to enjoy the picture postcard version of urban life that you found as a tourist, you'll find that you'll just be pushing the problems out into someone else's neighbourhood.
This is going to happen to a certain degree anyway. What I feel I would like to see happen is that in all our neighbourhoods we facilitate access to the kinds of services that prevent and cope with issues of addiction, disability, domestic abuse, and all the rest of the diverse things that drive people out on the street downtown.
That way all the weight is not on the Harris Green neighbours, or the North Park neighbours. To let those neighbourhoods deal with the issue as if it is a Harris Green or Downtown issue is unfair and will burn those neighbours out.
If people are going to be displaced, it makes sense that they need to be displaced somewhere appropiate not just by the municipalities or provinces or federal standards. Otherwise, they won't gather there, they'll gather in places restricted to their presence and be subjected to prosecution, which is much more expensive, and ultimately traumatic and therefore of more harm then letting the person help determine their needs.
Us against them, neighbours against the neighbourhood 'chaos' will the kind of downward progession that some people claim is already happening. The streets are safe to walk down, if you can handle the reality of the poverty that is pervasive in our society. If dignity of the individual is not respected, we face a much greater chance of letting the situation deteriate out of control.
Just my two cents, as someone who spends time in many neighbourhoods, including Harris Green.

#18 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:54 PM

The situation has gotten worse.

I grew up here, but was away for decades. When I came back, I was amazed at the sheer quantity of people obviously on the edge - mentally, economically, socially. And then somehow, a couple of years after I came back, things got even worse - I'd peg it at around 2006, maybe?

I understand when people say they don't enjoy being downtown - not because I agree that it's unsafe, but because there's only so much stepping over misery someone can handle before it affects them, too. It takes a level of shallowness and a sort of coarsening of your own sensibilities to look away from so many people in trouble, day after day after day.

I lived in the States in the wake of that "experiment" where mental hospitals and institutions were shut down (the 80s-greed-is-good-era). I had moved there from Vancouver, where I never saw such a level of distress. It really threw me for a loop. Ironically, the States I'm familiar with have done more to date to reverse that experiment and to solve problems. Here, meanwhile, it seems we're growing the problem, pushing it on to municipalities, which can't possibly cope with issues that need provincial and federal help.

I agree with ChrisJ when he writes, "To let those neighbourhoods deal with the issue as if it is a Harris Green or Downtown issue is unfair and will burn those neighbours out."

It's as though the Feds off-loaded to the Provinces, the Provinces off-loaded to the municipalities, and if neighborhood associations/ groups take on the responsibility, it just means that the munis have managed to off-load on to residents.

That's not right.
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#19 G-Man

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 09:26 PM

Alright I think everyone needs to cool down a wee bit in here. Lets be respectful or I will have to lock the thread.

#20 mat

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:24 PM

I am echoing G-Man - please consider your post before submitting. Personal attacks, taunting - and getting off topic with silly personal agendas will not be tolerated. Responding in anger or sarcasm does not contribute to the debate.

If you have an issue with a post please PM a moderator.

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