1676 replies to this topic

[tjv]

so SFH building costs have gone down?  What does it actually cost right now to build a basic, ~1700 sq ft, suburban 3 bed house?  

Where did I say building costs have gone down?  This is what I said "The labour market crunch is easing, but I am generally not expecting construction costs to ease that much"

 

Your question is like asking how much does it cost for a 4 door car.  Way too many variables to answer that.  What is basic to you - laminate floors or engineered?  quartz countertops or laminate?  heated bathroom floors with marble/porcelain or vinyl?  custom kitchen cabinets or IKEA crap, $20 light fixtures or $500 light fixtures, gravel driveway or asphalt or pavers, etc, etc, etc.  Anywhere from $125 to $300/sf

[RFS]

its simple, developers only build for demand AND if they can make money. If that combo doesn't exist then they take their money and invest elsewhere. Demand is slowing and sales falling sharply and are nearing number seen in the slow periods

Construction costs aren't falling, yet sale prices are. Didn't we just see a 55k drop in an offer to make a sale on this forum? Guess what, that money only comes from one place, the developers profit margin and nothing else

Well developers built in 2011 when you could buy a new house in Langford for ~350k and they are building now when you can buy a new house for ~750k so I think they have some room

[tjv]

^Haha that's funny, comparing 2011 to 2018 isn't comparable in the slightest.  In some sections costs have almost tripled, framing is a good example

[Mike K.]

Demand is slowing and sales falling sharply and are nearing number seen in the slow periods

 

It's easy to challenge that. According to sales statistics from the VREB, not including lots and manufactured homes:

 

2017 ended with 7,673.

2016 with 9,135 (record-breaking, all-time high).

2015 with 7,143.

2014 with 5,765.

2013 with 5,162.

2012 with 5,016.

 

2018 ended at 7,150.

 

It shocks me how much misinformation is out there.

 

Anyhow, this is not really the place for yet another sky-is-falling-sky-is-not-falling debate.

[tjv]

^who cares, last month there were only 375 sales.  The first half of 2018 was busy the later half was not

 

Dec 2015 there were 465 sales

Dec 2014 389 sales

Dec 2013 319 sales

 

None of these years were busy either.  Are you saying we will see the same number of sales in 2019 as in 2018?

 

I would say if Hudson is offering a 55k reduction out of the gate without even asking you can easily get a 6 figure reduction.

[Mike K.]

So far between January 1-7 there have been 42. Last January there were 41 between January 1-8 and 65 between January 1-9, 2017.

 

Place your bets!

[RFS]

I think new home starts is a better metric for health of the market than overall number of sales because obviously there are always people buying and selling

[songheesguy]

Is this truly a high end condo project?  I'm asking because I see the word "luxury" slapped on pretty much anything these days

 

We saw a lot of people walk away in 2008/09 from condo purchases in BC during the financial meltdown.  While we aren't expected to reach that level there today is no question we are entering a slowdown.  Of course with the new federal mortgage rules a lot of people are having trouble getting financing/refinancing, that's why my mortgage business is booming with rates at starting at 20%.

From my point of view as far as Luxury goes Customs House is the only New Luxury condo building currently being offered but I do think Hudson is higher end on the finishings and have done the best job out of all the pre sales currently out there (besides Customs House of course). The Capital Park is not high end finishings  especially with electric baseboard heat/ no AC, glass cooktop, standard cabinetry.  (unless you are spending 1.2million and up you get  a heat pump with A/C) 

[tjv]

^so I had a quick look at their website and its seems pretty standard to me in terms of new condos.  Not sure I would call it true high end

 

http://hudsonplaceone.ca/features/

 

Also not saying the market has fallen off a cliff, but we are in an adjustment or cooling off period.  Prices are falling but that is to be expected after several years of 20% increases

[Rulon]

From my point of view as far as Luxury goes Customs House is the only New Luxury condo building currently being offered but I do think Hudson is higher end on the finishings and have done the best job out of all the pre sales currently out there (besides Customs House of course). The Capital Park is not high end finishings  especially with electric baseboard heat/ no AC, glass cooktop, standard cabinetry.  (unless you are spending 1.2million and up you get  a heat pump with A/C) 

 

I would definitely agree with you, Customs House is a step above clearly... But looking at the three other "luxury" buildings that have been mentioned in these past posts (Capital Park, Hudson One, Bellewood) none,at least on paper, come close to Bayview One (although I'm sure Mike K will disagree).

 

I guess it is all in how you define luxury, I agree with Songhees guy, baseboard heat and no AC puts it out of the conversation. I think of that list only Hudson One will crack the top 5 buildings in Victoria (by my definition of luxury), and I'm not sure I can confidently say that.

[RFS]

I think you guys have a very simplistic literal definition of luxury

[jonny]

To me, luxury for Victoria would have to include:

• Concrete construction
• Full HVAC (if I ever buy another condo, God help me, it'll have full HVAC, dammit)
• Large outdoor patio
• Swimming pool, hot tub, steam/sauna
• Sweet amenities / party room
• Prime location
• Views
• Two parking stalls
• Car washing area
• In building gym, with actually decent equipment
• Guest suite
• Concierge
• Bike storage lockers

[Rob Randall]

Buying guide:

 

Laminate countertops = affordable housing

Quartz composite countertops = luxury condo

[Nparker]

Is anyone still building with laminate counter tops?

[shoeflack]

Is anyone still building with laminate counter tops?

 

Yup. I've been in a few townhouse projects in the West Shore that have had these, shockingly.

[Mike K.]

I would definitely agree with you, Customs House is a step above clearly... But looking at the three other "luxury" buildings that have been mentioned in these past posts (Capital Park, Hudson One, Bellewood) none,at least on paper, come close to Bayview One (although I'm sure Mike K will disagree).

 

I think tjv took "high-end" to mean "luxury," and that's how we got onto that track.

 

Bayview One is most definitely high-end as well, but for whatever reasons the market has priced it at a rate comparable with projects far lower on the opulence-o-metre.

[tjv]

I think tjv took "high-end" to mean "luxury," and that's how we got onto that track.

yes true, I think this is "luxury" aka average, and not high end

[songheesguy]

I would definitely agree with you, Customs House is a step above clearly... But looking at the three other "luxury" buildings that have been mentioned in these past posts (Capital Park, Hudson One, Bellewood) none,at least on paper, come close to Bayview One (although I'm sure Mike K will disagree).

 

I guess it is all in how you define luxury, I agree with Songhees guy, baseboard heat and no AC puts it out of the conversation. I think of that list only Hudson One will crack the top 5 buildings in Victoria (by my definition of luxury), and I'm not sure I can confidently say that.

Just to clarify I view high end and luxury as different. Higher end finishings: above average, high end: at the top of higher end and luxury: luxury

[LJ]

Is anyone still building with laminate counter tops?

I just went through some show homes and one of them had the best looking textured laminate counter top that I had ever seen. I would be more than willing to install that in any house.

[aastra]

Speaking of luxury:

 

During the 1960s and 1970s, many rental projects for moderate to low income families were constructed in Harris Green. Examples are View Towers at 1147 Quadra Street, and The Chelsea at 865 Yates Street. Today the area has become popular with condominium developers whose luxury buildings are bringing higher income earners closer to the downtown core.

 

from https://victoriaheri...eenhistory.html