147 replies to this topic

[Squidaddle]

With the zoning changed, is there anything to prevent Liquor Depot from setting up shop in the shopping centre now?

[pseudotsuga]

With the zoning changed, is there anything to prevent Liquor Depot from setting up shop in the shopping centre now?

Sure - a successful Cascadia already occupying the site.
Congrats to them for getting the go ahead.

[G-Man]

I really don't care what store goes there. We need a liquor store in the village. I should be able to buy my food and wine in the same place.

[VicHockeyFan]

With the zoning changed, is there anything to prevent Liquor Depot from setting up shop in the shopping centre now?

Yes, there are lots of covenants and restrictions.

[Caramia]

VHF is correct. To open up a Liquor Depot type store they would have to go back to public hearing. We are calling it the "hit by a bus" clause. It is unique in BC.

[mat]

Congratulations for getting the go ahead from council. Well done, it was allot of hard work.

[VicHockeyFan]

It was a hard fought battle and it went on until 11:00pm.

I'm not so sure it was that hard-fought. a lot of the people that were against were in favour of getting liquor as far away from the "at risk", "marginal" and "undesirable" elements as possible, while also saying that there were plenty of liquor stores nearby. That's a little bit contradictory.

Also, those that said there were plenty of liquor stores nearby, as much as admitted this was not like the govt. store at Blanshard, or like the one the govt one there before (more than 10 years ago?).

[pseudotsuga]

VHF is correct. To open up a Liquor Depot type store they would have to go back to public hearing. We are calling it the "hit by a bus" clause. It is unique in BC.

I'm interested to check this out.
Does anyone have a link to the description of the new C1-QV1 zone? I've tried the city's site, but can only find the notice for the public hearing, and last nights agenda. Neither go into detail about the zone or covenants.

(Edit - no, I'm not planning to hit anything by a bus & open my own liquor clearance house!)

[VicHockeyFan]

I'm interested to check this out.
Does anyone have a link to the description of the new C1-QV1 zone? I've tried the city's site, but can only find the notice for the public hearing, and last nights agenda. Neither go into detail about the zone or covenants.

(Edit - no, I'm not planning to hit anything by a bus & open my own liquor clearance house!)

I don't think you'll find all the details online. But if you phone Rob Woodland in Legislative Services at City Hall, he will explain. He's very busy, I rarely get him directly, but he has never failed to call me back within a day or two. You'll probably want to wait until those minutes are finalized.

[Caramia]

I do have that information. In order to create this level of legal accountability Cascadia declined the head-lease and instead took a sub-lease which has to be regularly renewed. Renewal is based on fulfilling the conditions. In order to make a change, this would have to go back to a public hearing.

Here's the meat of the restrictions:

... not include the sale of single portion service (bottle or can) of b eer, coolers or ciders;

... the closing time... will be limited to the same as the closing time of Fairways Market, ... which is currently 10:00pm

... will maintain a restrictive volume recycling program for bottles and cans consistent with the minimum acceptable quantity [according to provincial standards which is currently 24 per person per day, of the product sold at the store only]

Here is the hammer:

(e) ... will not operate in such a manner as to result in a nuisance or unreasonable disturbance to other tenants or occupiers of the Lands

(f) .. shall meet at least once each calendar year with the duely appointed excutive of the Quadra Hillside Neighbourhood Action Group, or more frequently if required by them, to review compliance with the provision of sub-section (e) above.

The second mechanism is the zoning restriction which limits them to 2000 sq feet (less than 200 sq metres) minus offices, storage, bathroom, backroom etc.

Some people mentioned previous poor community responsibility on behalf of the landlords in past years and suggested that they weren't the ideal watchdog. Most people don't realize that the property has changed hands since that "trouble time" and is now owned by the owners of the Bedford Hotel (near the Irish Times downtown). On top of that, Rogers is the lessor, so there are two levels of accountability there. This means that neighbors can phone Rogers if they are unhappy with what's going on.

In addition, if you read the above conditions, you can see that the owner has to submit himself to the Neighbourhood Action Group for review at least once a year.... not the landlord. Rob Woodland's statement about this to council is that it is stronger than a "Good Neighbourhood Agreement" and in fact Don had asked for the strongest legal tool he (Rob Woodland) in conjunction with legal council from all parties, could come up with.

To change any of this, there has to be a full on public hearing.
Some people said that it doesn't dictate the local/organic product selection. This is true. However, since it does dictate that it not operate in a way that causes nuisance, and the reason for that objection is a fear that "regular" liquor selections would draw "nuisance" customers, NAG would be able to respond to any massive product change if it did, in fact, draw that nuisance.

Happy to answer any more questions. I have been watching this with extreme interest as it has the potential to set an entirely new standard for the way that a liquor store rezoning can be structured, especially in other places in BC where Rogers is sub-leasing to liquor retailers (apparently video store/wine store pairings are not unique.)

These conditions are to Don Calveley's credit, but also to the credit of the opposition group and in particular NAG who can now stand up and say they negotiated the toughest liquor restrictions in British Columbia for their neighbourhood. No small feat.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I find it interesting that no one mentioned "gentrification" in connection with this proposal. I wonder if it's the case that in more robust communities, there would have been some hue & cry about gentrification - about upscale "displacing" the more commonplace. Yet here, critics weren't raising that issue at all, and instead they worried about their fragile neighborhood, as if this upscale store would bring more downward mobility.

Not sure what that means - I'm seeing this as a step in gentrifying (positively) the neighborhood (and I don't see that as a bad thing necessarily). There's no way that an upscale shop like that will exacerbate whatever substance abuse issues already exist in the neighborhood. It confused me to hear the critics focus on that, frankly.

Is it just because of the bad history from the previous liquor store? Or just because it is liquor?

...Anyway, it makes me think of Big Audio Dynamite, The Battle Of All Saints Road, which is all about gentrification. Start humming that whenever I think about this proposal... ;-)

A couple of years ago down ladbroke grove
The dreads uptight sitting on a treasure trove
A skinny white dude came in and took a chair
He had a black leather jacket and greased back hair

Well they ain`t seen nothing like it down the mangrove
Plugged his guitar into a flat iron stove
Now all the brothers they began to stare
Hillybilly cat blew `em on their derriere

It`s the booze that picks you up
And throws you against the wall
Sometimes there`s a drought
Can`t get no sense at all

Now they had the grass he had the song
The rocker and the ras began to get along
Looking around for something to bang
They all joined in and this is what they sang...

We fired our guns and the coppers kept a coming
There wasn`t quite as many as there was a while ago
We fired once more and they began a running
Over vauxhall bridge and via pimlico

Cow foot curry herbage and macheté
`57 chevy in a rondolet
Red stripe bm a game of dominoes
Zebra serenade the honky`s and negros

Well it ain`t mozart

Nowadays all quiet on the all saints road
Cops and yups come in by the truckload
A condo stands where the grass used to grow
Race attacks filofax and nobody goes

It`s the booze that picks you up
And throws you against the wall
Lost my vallet and my mind at the carnival

Seven eleven mcdonalds and ho-jo`s
Gettys` on the jetty watch the river flow
The lambeth walk`s like 42nd street
Folks i gotta tell you this town can`t be beat

Wadda dem-dem-dem.......

[pseudotsuga]

Thanks for the info.

Sure would be nice if we lived in a world where this kind of micro-managed regulation wasn't necessary. I was a bit shocked when I was perusing the City's zoning web-page...dozens and dozens of separate zones.

[martini]

^^ Well I think that's the first time I've seen a reference to Big Audio Dynamite.

I have to say I was a bit puzzled by much of the naysayer beliefs surrounding this type of shop.
It only seemed to make sense to bring this into the neighborhood. It brings with it a certain clientele. I felt the Chicken Littles didn't do their homework. It seemed there was an inability to see a liquor store as anything but a liquor store.

[amor de cosmos]

gets the ok:
http://www.bclocalne...s/56619722.html

[VicHockeyFan]

gets the ok:
http://www.bclocalne...s/56619722.html

The issue was a contentious one, with dozens of residents standing to voice their opinions on the issue – some in favour and many in opposition. From start to finish, the rezoning application was discussed for more than three hours.

Now, how would you read that if you weren't there? ie. would you think more spoke for, or against?

[VicHockeyFan]

Because it was somewhere between 2-1 and 3-1 in favour, in terms of those who stood to speak.

[Caramia]

The 1,200-square-foot liquor store would stock mostly high-end wines, said Don Calveley, owner of Truffles Group of Companies, which would operate the store.

That's got to be a misquote too. Don was clear in his presentation that this was not a "high end" store but rather a specialty store that focuses on local and organic wines, spirits and beers - the prices are midrange.

[VicHockeyFan]

Contention by the Case
Posted By: Jason Youmans
10/28/2009 8:00 AM

http://mondaymag.com...on-by-the-case/


Will the Cascadia Liquor store brew up trouble for Quadra Village as naysayers fear?

Wanna meet some passionate people? Try opening a liquor store

Short of a needle exchange or a homeless shelter, nothing uncorks a vigorous neighbourhood debate quite like the prospect of a new liquor store opening down the block.

[...]

[piltdownman]

That's got to be a misquote too. Don was clear in his presentation that this was not a "high end" store but rather a specialty store that focuses on local and organic wines, spirits and beers - the prices are midrange.

Seems to me that "High End" and "Premium" are used very liberally when associated with alcohol. I mean I wouldn't classify Molson Canadian as being a Premium brand, but its "currently the #1 selling super premium beer in Canada". Same with "Premium High Balls"; When I think "Premium Vodka", Grey Goose or Belvedere might come to my mind, but for most bars that means Smirnoff. Those worlds seem to mean anything above bull max and other hobo favorites.

[Bob Fugger]

That's got to be a misquote too. Don was clear in his presentation that this was not a "high end" store but rather a specialty store that focuses on local and organic wines, spirits and beers - the prices are midrange.

I was at that presentation, and I found it a bit odd that Don would ignore a good chunk of the alcohol drinking public by focusing on "local and organic wines, spirits and beers."

Even so, how does one categorize something as local? Kokanee, for example, uses "pure mountain stream water" in their brewing process. Heck, even Molson's brews beer in their Vancouver brewery, that's pretty local.