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Municipal/regional water supply discussion


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#881 Mike K.

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 02:27 PM

Different rates, for sure, but not all that meaningful at the end of the day.

 

The only rate I ever cared about was when the CRD told us to conserve water, then jacked up the price because they realized conservation took too much revenue off the table.


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#882 Love the rock

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 02:36 PM

I can see water prices being ranked #421 in terms of importance when selecting a home.

Yeah we all have  our own priorities.  He has property with a huge garden it’s important to him . 

I just never knew different municipalities charge different water rates I find that interesting. 



#883 JohnN

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 02:40 PM

Water delivery costs and tank-truck availability in rural areas might be a factor for a few residents to consider:

Rural water delivery rates on the rise- Limited access could affect remote West Shore homes


:)

#884 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 04:58 PM

In theory, municipalities are only allowed to charge for water what their actual costs are - including  water purchases, system operation cost and infrastructure cost (an amount to ensure timely upgrades and repairs going forward)

 

the CRD rate is the same to all municipalities, but their operating costs and infrastructure costs (current and future) will vary widely - thus the differing rates among municipalities.



#885 phx

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Posted 09 August 2021 - 06:40 PM

Victoria has many leaky water mains and has to charge more to cover the cost of the wasted water.



#886 Tom Braybrook

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Posted 10 August 2021 - 07:43 AM

^

lost water definitely contributes to the cost

 

maybe the new homeless advocate, or the backyard garden advocate, or either of the poet laureates, or possibly one of the equity and inclusion officers could pick up a wrench to fix it

 

but more likely council will just declare piped water a "colonial" concept and tell us the leaky water mains actually replenish the ground water supply ;-)


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#887 rjag

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 11:33 AM

Water Watch (crd.bc.ca)

 

Will be interesting to see how quickly the reservoirs fill again this year.

 

Numbers are slightly below the 5 year average



#888 Nparker

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 12:35 PM

I imagine we'll be pretty close to the 5 year average by the end of the month.



#889 Mike K.

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Posted 28 October 2021 - 01:09 PM

They are likely allowing the reservoir to spill at quite a rate right now to support the salmon run, otherwise it would be at a much higher level, I think?

 

We're going to end the month at about 200% of average rainfall for Sept - Oct.


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#890 JohnN

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 09:39 AM

They are likely allowing the reservoir to spill at quite a rate right now to support the salmon run, otherwise it would be at a much higher level, I think?

 

We're going to end the month at about 200% of average rainfall for Sept - Oct.

I think that Deception Reservoir, not Sooke Lake Reservoir is the major source to support salmon in Sooke River. However, if Sooke Lake is low, maybe Deception. I recall when Sooke Dam was raised twenty years ago, the First Nations demanded the top metre of the raised Sooke Lake water for salmon but with negotiation, they accepted Deception water. 

 

References: Water from Deception Reservoir is used exclusively for water releases to the Sooke River as part of an agreement with the T’Souke First Nation and federal and provincial governments to protect ecological values downstream of the Sooke Dam.https://www.crd.bc.c...figures2015.pdf

 

This lake (Deception) is not used as part of the CRD water system due to algae bloom problems in the past and is quarantined from Sooke Lake Reservoir. It is now entirely used to provide water to the Sooke River for salmon spawning as part of the agreement signed with the T’Sooke First Nation. Supplementary water is provided from the Sooke Lake when needed to maintain minimum river levels. http://wikimapia.org...-Lake-Reservoir


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#891 Mike K.

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 10:13 AM

Very cool. Thank you.

So why do we see reservoir levels of the Sooke and Goldstream reservoirs stagnate during torrential downpours, and fill very slow over long periods of time, then suddenly fill to 100% by mid-winter?

Are they actively flushing them out to maintain water quality during the rain season, knowing it’ll only take a month or so to fill to capacity?

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#892 Spy Black

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 10:40 AM

I’m not 100% sure, but I believe Deception gets most of its water from Sooke Lake. There aren’t a lot of creeks of any size flowing into Deception.
It’s always been my understanding that Sooke Lake is affected by three things (in addition to rain and residential use).

First is the flow of Rithet Creek, the primary source of water for Sooke Lake. The second is how much water from Sooke Lake is being transferred to Deception for use in maintaining the Sooke River flow. And the third is the sudden influx of water into Sooke Lake when they open the flow from the Council Lake watershed, which is up above Sooke Lake, and is used to top Sooke Lake up when deemed to be required. .
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#893 JohnN

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 10:41 AM

Very cool. Thank you.

So why do we see reservoir levels of the Sooke and Goldstream reservoirs stagnate during torrential downpours, and fill very slow over long periods of time, then suddenly fill to 100% by mid-winter?

Are they actively flushing them out to maintain water quality during the rain season, knowing it’ll only take a month or so to fill to capacity?

I'll guess that there is a period of "drought momentum", when depending on the amount of fall rains as they start, the soil saturation point isn't reached for several weeks afterward and thus reservoir levels wouldn't immediately reflect high rainfalls.

 

After soil saturation point is reached, there is more rapid infiltration of water into the reservoir and level would rise more quickly. 

 

Usually, the significant amount of reservoir water allocated to water main flushing would occur in the fall and spring, after the first rains in fall, and before the drought starts in late spring. 

 

Here is the latest Sooke Reservoir level graphic, showing that as of October 24, reservoir level appears to be a the 5-year minimum level and below the 5-year average level for the date. Summary chart at:  https://www.crd.bc.c...age-summary.pdf

Graphic linked on this webpage: https://www.crd.bc.c...eservoir-photos

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#894 JohnN

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 11:26 AM

I’m not 100% sure, but I believe Deception gets most of its water from Sooke Lake. There aren’t a lot of creeks of any size flowing into Deception.
It’s always been my understanding that Sooke Lake is affected by three things (in addition to rain and residential use).

First is the flow of Rithet Creek, the primary source of water for Sooke Lake. The second is how much water from Sooke Lake is being transferred to Deception for use in maintaining the Sooke River flow. And the third is the sudden influx of water into Sooke Lake when they open the flow from the Council Lake watershed, which is up above Sooke Lake, and is used to top Sooke Lake up when deemed to be required. .

I think you have a better handle on this than I do but I'm not sure that Deception gets as much inflow from Sooke Lake as it used to. The Saddle Dam (on map image below) was built about 2000-2001 or so, I think to prevent that. 

 

I think the Leech Tunnel connected through Deception and when it flowed briefly in about 1988, water quality was very poor. So CRD blocked the tunnel and sealed off Deception. 

 

Couple of Times Colonist 1988 headlines that I think related to Leech tunnel water quality issue: 

 

TC. 88-06-21. Foul-smelling water blamed for illnesses, p.B1.

TC. 88-07-06. Earthy-smelling tap water replaces fishy taste.

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#895 Mike K.

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 12:45 PM

These types of resource setups truly are marvels of engineering.

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#896 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 01:06 PM

These types of resource setups truly are marvels of engineering.

 

especially the deception dam.  that is mostly just smoke and mirrors that literally tricks the water.



#897 Spy Black

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Posted 30 October 2021 - 09:21 PM

Leech is currently not connected to our water supply. Indeed, it's questionable if it can ever be connected due to the turbidity of the Leech River during freshet.

 

Taken into account, but not really groked by the CRD Water folks in the lead up to the CRD purchase of the Timberwest lands, was the fact that the Leech River is an utterly wild river ... one that during freshet is simply out of control, and quite amazing to see. It can knock down trees and move car sized boulders ... it's not really what CRD water folks look for when they look for drinking water sources.

It's highly likely that, long before tapping the Leech River system, the CRD Water folks will tap the very, very deep North end of the Sooke Reservoir (which is currently much, much deeper than can flow to the South end of Sooke Lake), for future water needs.

It's likely that they'll be leaving the Leech River out of the mix for the foreseeable future.

 

It's my understanding (not guaranteed to be 100% correct) that the Saddle Dam is designed to prevent the mixing of Sooke and Deception waters, but that Sooke Lake still pumps (or gravity flows) water into Deception (one way) in order to keep its capability up to to providing the appropriate seasonal flow to the Sooke River.

The Deception has a few small creeks flowing into it, but to my knowledge there isn't sufficient flow into Deception to keep it as plumped up as it normally is without topping up from the Sooke Lake/Council Lake system.

 

Regardless, our CRD water is some the purest natural drinking water in the world, and with the exception of those times we switch to the Goldstream system for flushing and inspection of the Kapoor tunnel ... our water is indeed some of the (if not the) purest natural large population drinking water in the world.


Edited by Spy Black, 30 October 2021 - 09:29 PM.


#898 JohnN

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Posted 31 October 2021 - 07:50 AM

Leech is currently not connected to our water supply. Indeed, it's questionable if it can ever be connected due to the turbidity of the Leech River during freshet.

 

Taken into account, but not really groked by the CRD Water folks in the lead up to the CRD purchase of the Timberwest lands, was the fact that the Leech River is an utterly wild river ... one that during freshet is simply out of control, and quite amazing to see. It can knock down trees and move car sized boulders ... it's not really what CRD water folks look for when they look for drinking water sources.

It's highly likely that, long before tapping the Leech River system, the CRD Water folks will tap the very, very deep North end of the Sooke Reservoir (which is currently much, much deeper than can flow to the South end of Sooke Lake), for future water needs.

It's likely that they'll be leaving the Leech River out of the mix for the foreseeable future.

 

It's my understanding (not guaranteed to be 100% correct) that the Saddle Dam is designed to prevent the mixing of Sooke and Deception waters, but that Sooke Lake still pumps (or gravity flows) water into Deception (one way) in order to keep its capability up to to providing the appropriate seasonal flow to the Sooke River.

The Deception has a few small creeks flowing into it, but to my knowledge there isn't sufficient flow into Deception to keep it as plumped up as it normally is without topping up from the Sooke Lake/Council Lake system.

 

Regardless, our CRD water is some the purest natural drinking water in the world, and with the exception of those times we switch to the Goldstream system for flushing and inspection of the Kapoor tunnel ... our water is indeed some of the (if not the) purest natural large population drinking water in the world.

 

Thanks - your detailed post helps fill gaps and prompts the fading memories about these issues. 

 

I think when Greater Victoria Water District had built the Leech Tunnel, they didn't account for nature of the Leech River and the impact that the past clearcutting in the Leech watershed had on water quality and when they opened Leech Tunnel about 1988, the poor quality of the water became obvious and added to growing dissatisfaction with the GVWD's management.

 

In addition to the Leech fiasco, the problem of clearcutting in the Sooke Reservoir watershed got lots of public protests and when the NDP government saw that, and rumours of financial mismanagement of the water district, they initiated the commission by David Perry. 

 

I think the $60 million purchase of the Leech lands for CRD water in 2007 and 2010 was predicated on needing about 30-50 years of reforestation to improve water quality to minimum standards. That seemed to be the regional water chair Nils Jensen's public messaging at the time.

 

However, I recall somebody saying privately that there could have been a concern that depending on reforestation to improve the water quality to minimum standards might not be sufficient and that discussion had gone in the direction that with the federal water quality guidelines emerging, a $150 million+ water filtration plant would be needed anyway and that plant might allow Leech water to be used even if the reforestation didn't bring it up to the minimums. 

 

 

TC. 84-04-18. Court shields tunnel, p.B1.  Mercury in Leech River could get into city taps, p.B1.

TC. 84-07-10. Water link stopped by Judge, p.B1.

Monday Magazine. 96-10-31/11-06. Water Works - David Perry plunged into Victoria’s water supply controversy and found citizens who are angry, frustrated -and often right


Edited by JohnN, 31 October 2021 - 07:50 AM.

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#899 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 31 October 2021 - 08:01 AM

 

I think when Greater Victoria Water District had built the Leech Tunnel, they didn't account for nature of the Leech River and the impact that the past clearcutting in the Leech watershed had on water quality and when they opened Leech Tunnel about 1988, the poor quality of the water became obvious and added to growing dissatisfaction with the GVWD's management.

 

 

poor qualify compared to what though?

 

it's great that our water needs little filtration and processing, but if it does, so what?   something like 20 or 25% of Canadians refuse to drink tap water.  we could all avoid it without too much problem.



#900 JohnN

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Posted 31 October 2021 - 09:16 AM

 

It's highly likely that, long before tapping the Leech River system, the CRD Water folks will tap the very, very deep North end of the Sooke Reservoir (which is currently much, much deeper than can flow to the South end of Sooke Lake), for future water needs.

It's likely that they'll be leaving the Leech River out of the mix for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Indeed, the 2001 drought was so critical that the contingency plan did include pumping and piping North Basin water to the intake tower. Plan got as far as buying the pipe but the rains returned and then, the Sooke Dam got raised and with bigger reservoir, less short-term concern about water supply.

 

At some point during the drought, I recall CRD water manager Jack Hull informing that a passage in the old 1914 dam had been blown away with explosives (I think a Navy diver did it) in order to get the water dregs in the south end while, the North Basin infrastructure got built. 

 

2001 DROUGHT MANAGEMENT ACTION PLAN

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