670 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

obviously it's true that it's a first-nations language and their languages are usually talked about in the context of other first-nations issues or relations, but what's stopping us from just thinking of it as victoria's language, or the language people speak in this part of the world? in that case any connection to first nations becomes totally irrelevant. would it be any different if a town in germany or japan, etc opened a new library branch that had a name in whatever local dialect they speak in that town, or if a library in ireland had "leabharlann" on the sign in addition to english?

[RFS]

obviously it's true that it's a first-nations language and their languages are usually talked about in the context of other first-nations issues or relations, but what's stopping us from just thinking of it as victoria's language, or the language people speak in this part of the world? in that case any connection to first nations becomes totally irrelevant. would it be any different if a town in germany or japan, etc opened a new library branch that had a name in whatever local dialect they speak in that town, or if a library in ireland had "leabharlann" on the sign in addition to english?

We are beating a dead horse but the obvious difference is that virtually no one speaks this first nation language. Among the first nation population its gotta be less than 1%. And i dont agree with VHF i think out of historical interest its definitely interesting and worth knowing about these languages but naming a library is just worthless virtue signalling

[amor de cosmos]

Although there is an element of silliness to naming the library something that nobody but a few elders can pronounce, it does spread knowledge of First Nations and the history of First Nations in this area.
 
But there is a down side, in that that I believe some folks feel that this is actually "doing something" solid for First Nations, when in reality the issues that need addressing in a First Nations context are so much more serious, and so much more complex ... despite the feel good element I touched on above, if you're paying close attention to First Nation issues this comes across as little more than no-cost lip service.

considering that language is key to culture & identity I tend to think the opposite. if language doesn't really mean anything then what were (or are) all those french-english fights about? maybe it doesn't look like much now but if the first nations start to see their names on things they'll have more of a reason to learn it.

[rjag]

considering that language is key to culture & identity I tend to think the opposite. if language doesn't really mean anything then what were (or are) all those french-english fights about? maybe it doesn't look like much now but if the first nations start to see their names on things they'll have more of a reason to learn it.

 

Spoken language is one thing, but the written language they use is the International Phonetic Alphabet. My daughter is finishing her degree at UVic in linguistics and took several courses on it and its unpronounceable for the average person on the street. She looked at the library name and had difficulty getting it even close...and she will have her degree in this next month!!!

 

http://www.ipachart.com/

 

Give it a try

[mbjj]

I think a First Nations' name is good, but did it have to be this one in particular? I would happily say something I could pronounce.  I've studied six different languages at one time or another, so I'm no slouch. :-)

[Hotel Mike]

Could have been Soghees/James Bay branch. No one would have had an issue with that. Or Lekwungen/James Bay branch. But an unpronounceable name is pretty silly IMHO.

[Benezet]

I think a First Nations' name is good, but did it have to be this one in particular? I would happily say something I could pronounce. I've studied six different languages at one time or another, so I'm no slouch. :-)

Heck ya! It’s what the original inhabitants called the place, so it’s most approriate. And who doesn’t like a really tough challenge once in a while, right? :-)

[Jackerbie]

Vancouver opened the nə́c̓aʔmat ct Strathcona Branch last year, so expect more Salishan names popping up

[Bingo]

We could have called it

 

the James Bay Branch

[rjag]

Heck ya! It’s what the original inhabitants called the place, so it’s most approriate. And who doesn’t like a really tough challenge once in a while, right? :-)

 

You sure they were the 'original' inhabitants? Sarcasm aside, I think its great to acknowledge the earlier settlers and this could have been done so well by using a name thats identifiable. As it is, its ceremonial and will be ignored in favor of something simpler like James Bay branch or the Capital Park branch....hows that helping?

[Benezet]

Sorry if you’ve heard this before but.....

You know what the First Nations called James Bay before it was James Bay?
|
|
|
|
|
“Ours”

[Benezet]

You sure they were the 'original' inhabitants? Sarcasm aside, I think its great to acknowledge the earlier settlers and this could have been done so well by using a name thats identifiable. As it is, its ceremonial and will be ignored in favor of something simpler like James Bay branch or the Capital Park branch....hows that helping?

Okay, “previous” inhabitants. My point it that it’s (apparently) the most authentic First Nations name for the place, which makes it a good choice even if it’s really, really hard to pronounce.

Edited by Benezet, 29 January 2018 - 04:01 PM.

[rjag]

Sorry if you’ve heard this before but.....

You know what the First Nations called James Bay before it was James Bay?
|
|
|
|
|
“Ours”

 

Same statement can be applied to pretty well every country around the world. FN dont hold the exclusive rights to some other group moving in and taking over and wont be the last either..... 

 

I disagree about the name being a good choice as it will never be adopted and incorporated like Songhees was or Tswassen....make it something pronounceable like Lekwungen

[Benezet]

...
I disagree about the name being a good choice as it will never be adopted and incorporated like Songhees was or Tswassen....make it something pronounceable like Lekwungen

I agree that it probably won’t end up in common use like the others, but that’s not the point. It’s the “right” name. Yes, the FN name is a tough one for just about anyone, but James Bay isn’t and that’s also the library’s name. Use whatever name you want (or can). You can even call it George. :-) But, sorry, changing the FN name to something more English-palatable in this day and age is disrespectful at best.

[Rob Randall]

It's only one syllable more than the Bruce Hutchinson or Nellie McClung branches.

 

Also I am only 90 percent certain I spelled the above names correctly.

[rmpeers]

Nice. I've always thought there was a business just waiting to be started on lower Government Street involving local First Nations food and culture.

That is a great idea waiting to happen.

[amor de cosmos]

do we know what will be in the ground floor of custom house yet?

[LJ]

Are we sure of what the characters even say? It can't be James Bay as that didn't exist in their time of possession. 

 

I'm thinking it's something derogatory and there all laughing at us while we try to pronounce it.

[Rob Randall]

Anyone upset about hard-to-pronounce place names should steer clear of Wales.

[Benezet]

Are we sure of what the characters even say? It can't be James Bay as that didn't exist in their time of possession.

I'm thinking it's something derogatory and there all laughing at us while we try to pronounce it.

You never know, until you know...

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=tIyvHBYiCLA