465 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Plus Rider Express, which already serves Vancouver to Winnipeg, has applied to serve Ontario & Quebec in order to offer service across the country.

Why should the government subsidize a coalition of bus companies when a private company has already stepped up?

 

indeed.  and rider express is not part of the coalition.

 

https://www.travelccbc.com/

[Rex Waverly]

Private companies will only run routes that are profitable. They have no incentive to service low-volume routes to rural communities if they can't make any money off of it. With government subsidies comes control, it's how a government can ensure public transit is available to everyone, or at least as many as reasonably possible.  

[Victoria Watcher]

so what is the case for subsidized bus services to remote communities?  the vast majority of the residents of more remote communities seem to be able to find ways to move about, thus low demand for buses.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 11:47 AM.

[Rex Waverly]

How much is a 'vast majority'?  Even if say, 90% have easy access to a vehicle, that's 10% that don't. And those are often vulnerable people (low income, indigenous, disabled, etc). There are many people in rural towns that rely on transit to access services that are only in the larger centres.

 

One of the classic examples of the need for improving rural transit, especially in BC, was the Highway of Tears missing women, who (if i remember correctly) had to rely on hitch-hiking due to inadequate transit. 

[Victoria Watcher]

How much is a 'vast majority'?  Even if say, 90% have easy access to a vehicle, that's 10% that don't. And those are often vulnerable people (low income, indigenous, disabled, etc). There are many people in rural towns that rely on transit to access services that are only in the larger centres.

 

i mean the "vast majority" in that actually 99% or more of rural residents find a way to travel even when they do not own cars.  including vulnerable, low income, indigenous, disabled etc.

 

for example there has been no bus service in western canada for three years now.  none in the entire country for the past year.  nearly everyone has managed.   friends.  neighbours.  informal ride-share and in many cases paid rides.  it gets worked out.  just by people being people.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 01:50 PM.

[vortoozo]

i mean the "vast majority" in that actually 99% or more of rural residents find a way to travel even when they do not own cars.  including vulnerable, low income, indigenous, disabled etc.

 

for example there has been no bus service in western canada for three years now.  none in the entire country for the past year.  nearly everyone has managed.   friends.  neighbours.  informal ride-share and in many cases paid rides.  it gets worked out.  just by people being people.  

 

Huh? There's been plenty of bus service in western Canada for three years.

 

Multiple operators Vancouver - Whistler

Wilsons on the Island and to Vancouver.

Multiple operators Vancouver - the interior  (E Bus/Rider)

BC Bus North in Northern BC

Mountain Man Mike from Vancouver over the highway 3 corridor to Lethbridge & Calgary.

[Victoria Watcher]

dozens of BC communities - if not over 100 - with over 500-person populations have no intercity bus services.

the people manage. humans adapt. innovate.

we will be fine with no subsidized inter-city bus services.

I don’t think people clearly understand that most people - over 99% - that live in cities even with inter-city bus services and that do not own or drive cars still do not use the bus services.

subsidized intercity bus services is a solution looking for a problem that barely exists. if at all.

 

of course some bus companies are all in favour as they hope to be the beneficiaries of the subsidies. 

 

but the big bus company that plans the largest canada-wide expansion has no interest in them.  they can run without.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 02:36 PM.

[Rex Waverly]

i mean the "vast majority" in that actually 99% or more of rural residents find a way to travel even when they do not own cars.  including vulnerable, low income, indigenous, disabled etc.

 

for example there has been no bus service in western canada for three years now.  none in the entire country for the past year.  nearly everyone has managed.   friends.  neighbours.  informal ride-share and in many cases paid rides.  it gets worked out.  just by people being people.  

 

Out of curiosity, where did you get that 99% statistic from? Has there been any studies on the impact of the loss of transit?  Does the 99% figure account for missed health care appointments, missed employment / economic opportunities, lack of access to resources / services that the rest of the country gets to use?  Have they quantified the impact on the well-being of would-be transit users that the loss of bus service has had? 

[Victoria Watcher]

Out of curiosity, where did you get that 99% statistic from? Has there been any studies on the impact of the loss of transit?  Does the 99% figure account for missed health care appointments, missed employment / economic opportunities, lack of access to resources / services that the rest of the country gets to use?  Have they quantified the impact on the well-being of would-be transit users that the loss of bus service has had? 

 

i come to that figure by looking at highway traffic statistics in and out of smaller communities.  so i will see for example 4,000 vehicles per day.  and one bus per week.

 

so in the case above we have more than 28,000 people moving by car and at best 78 on a bus each week.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 03:40 PM.

[vortoozo]

i come to that figure by looking at highway traffic statistics in and out of smaller communities.  so i will see for example 4,000 vehicles per day.  and one bus per week.

 

so in the case above we have more than 28,000 people moving by car and at best 78 on a bus each week.

 

Those stats sound like they are pulled out of thin air. What community are you referring to in your example? I can't think of any BC community that only has one bus per week other than Fort Nelson.

[Victoria Watcher]

Those stats sound like they are pulled out of thin air. What community are you referring to in your example? I can't think of any BC community that only has one bus per week other than Fort Nelson.

 

yes some have 2 buses per week.   so 28,000+ car passengers and 156 bus passengers. 

 

 

 

kitamat - 6800 population

terrace - 15,000

smithers - 6000

[vortoozo]

yes some have 2 buses per week.   so 28,000+ car passengers and 156 bus passengers. 

 

 

 

kitamat - 6800 population

terrace - 15,000

smithers - 6000

 

Those communities have 4 busses per week. 2 to Prince George and 2 to Prince Rupert.

Plus rail service.

[Victoria Watcher]

to get to the 1% I specified (the 99% i mentioned) they will need to get to at least 4 full-sized full buses.

 

so my point stands.

 

also the car traffic outside terrace is 7,000 per day.  so 49,000 per week.  compared to less than 300 if every bus is full.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 04:06 PM.

[vortoozo]

to get to the 1% I specified (the 99% i mentioned) they will need to get to at least 4 full-sized full buses.

 

so my point stands.

 

also the car traffic outside terrace is 7,000 per day.  so 49,000 per week.  compared to less than 300 if every bus is full.

 

That's 7000 cars passing through per day. That could be someone travelling from Prince George to Prince Rupert. But how many local vehicles? Terrace's population is only 12K, something tells me that half of them including children aren't each driving a single occupancy vehicle out of town every day.

[Victoria Watcher]

something tells me people are trying to make a case for subsidised intercity bus services that’s as silly as commuter rail on the island.

[Rex Waverly]

to get to the 1% I specified (the 99% i mentioned) they will need to get to at least 4 full-sized full buses.

 

so my point stands.

 

also the car traffic outside terrace is 7,000 per day.  so 49,000 per week.  compared to less than 300 if every bus is full.

 

i think you're confusing the number of vehicles / trips with the number of people.  Someone with a car might make multiple trips a week, where someone on the bus system may only go once every month or two.  But that doesn't mean the bus isn't necessary for them.

[Victoria Watcher]

the bus is not "necessary" for anyone that only goes once every one or two months.  find a ride.  ask your neighbour.  chip in some gas money.   go on Craigslist or post to Facebook.  save up for an Uber.  

 

you have 59 days to figure it out. 

 

like 99% of these people do.  back to my original point.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 04:33 PM.

[vortoozo]

the bus is not "necessary" for anyone that only goes once every one or two months.  find a ride.  ask your neighbour.  chip in some gas money.   go on Craigslist or post to Facebook.  save up for an Uber.  

 

you have 59 days to figure it out. 

 

like 99% of these people do.  back to my original point.  

 

That's incredibly ignorant.

[Rex Waverly]

something tells me people are trying to make a case for subsidised intercity bus services that’s as silly as commuter rail on the island.

 

It is really dependent on the dollar value we're talking about....   

 

Intra-city transit typically makes maybe 30-35% of expenditures back, so it is subsidized heavily. Is this similar to what inter-city buses need?  I honestly don't know the numbers.  But Greyhound was able to survive, with the existing subsidies, for decades. Even if they weren't very profitable, the length of service at least shows it wasn't a ridiculous money loser for them.  So keeping or tweaking the existing subsidies may be all that is needed to get the service back up and running. 

 

Subsidized services are a necessity of our society.  I mean, the ferries that connect us to the mainland are heavily subsidized (****, the inland ferries are free FFS).... our intra-city transit is heavily subsidized, our roads and bridges are free (most of them, anyway).    

[Victoria Watcher]

That's incredibly ignorant.

 

it's what i'm known for.  

 

i'm all for you taking the inter-city bus.  i just do not want to pay part of your fare.  i never ask you to pay for my gas or flights.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2021 - 04:39 PM.