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The Climate Change / Global Warming Debate


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#2121 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 09:15 AM

but if you replace porn with single occupant vehicle drives to the local brothel or massage parlour is that worse?

#2122 rjag

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 09:19 AM

but if you replace porn with single occupant vehicle drives to the local brothel or massage parlour is that worse?

 

Maybe thats why we have bike lanes


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#2123 Mike K.

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 10:01 AM

I saw the environmental disaster that is the Action Bus fuming down the road yesterday. I wonder what environmental action precipitated its 2mpg sojourn yesterday?

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#2124 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 02:48 PM

B.C. rolls into August without single fire ban in effect

 

 

Cooler, wetter conditions earlier in summer have so far not resulted in many wildfires

https://www.cbc.ca/n...5236263?cmp=rss



#2125 LJ

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 08:00 PM

If You Want ‘Renewable Energy,’ Get Ready to Dig Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of plastic.
 
 
By  
Mark P. Mills
Aug. 5, 2019 6:48 pm ET
 

Democrats dream of powering society entirely with wind and solar farms combined with massive batteries. Realizing this dream would require the biggest expansion in mining the world has seen and would produce huge quantities of waste. 

“Renewable energy” is a misnomer. Wind and solar machines and batteries are built from nonrenewable materials. And they wear out. Old equipment must be decommissioned, generating millions of tons of waste. The International Renewable Energy Agency calculates that solar goals for 2050 consistent with the Paris Accords will result in old-panel disposal constituting more than double the tonnage of all today’s global plastic waste. Consider some other sobering numbers: 

A single electric-car battery weighs about 1,000 pounds. Fabricating one requires digging up, moving and processing more than 500,000 pounds of raw materials somewhere on the planet. The alternative? Use gasoline and extract one-tenth as much total tonnage to deliver the same number of vehicle-miles over the battery’s seven-year life.

When electricity comes from wind or solar machines, every unit of energy produced, or mile traveled, requires far more materials and land than fossil fuels. That physical reality is literally visible: A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas-fired turbines, each no bigger than a tractor-trailer.

Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of nonrecyclable plastic. Solar power requires even more cement, steel and glass—not to mention other metals. Global silver and indium mining will jump 250% and 1,200% respectively over the next couple of decades to provide the materials necessary to build the number of solar panels, the International Energy Agency forecasts. World demand for rare-earth elements—which aren’t rare but are rarely mined in America—will rise 300% to 1,000% by 2050 to meet the Paris green goals. If electric vehicles replace conventional cars, demand for cobalt and lithium, will rise more than 20-fold. That doesn’t count batteries to back up wind and solar grids.

 

Last year a Dutch government-sponsored study concluded that the Netherlands’ green ambitions alone would consume a major share of global minerals. “Exponential growth in [global] renewable energy production capacity is not possible with present-day technologies and annual metal production,” it concluded.

The demand for minerals likely won’t be met by mines in Europe or the U.S. Instead, much of the mining will take place in nations with oppressive labor practices. The Democratic Republic of the Congo produces 70% of the world’s raw cobalt, and China controls 90% of cobalt refining. The Sydney-based Institute for a Sustainable Future cautions that a global “gold” rush for minerals could take miners into “some remote wilderness areas [that] have maintained high biodiversity because they haven’t yet been disturbed.”

What’s more, mining and fabrication require the consumption of hydrocarbons. Building enough wind turbines to supply half the world’s electricity would require nearly two billion tons of coal to produce the concrete and steel, along with two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. More than 90% of the world’s solar panels are built in Asia on coal-heavy electric grids.

Engineers joke about discovering “unobtanium,” a magical energy-producing element that appears out of nowhere, requires no land, weighs nothing, and emits nothing. Absent the realization of that impossible dream, hydrocarbons remain a far better alternative than today’s green dreams.

Mr. Mills is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a partner in Cottonwood Venture Partners, an energy-tech venture fund, and author of the recent report, “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking.”

 

Copyright ©2019 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8


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#2126 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:49 AM

What if alternative energy isn’t all it’s cracked up to be? That’s the provocative question explored in the documentary “Planet of the Humans,” which is backed and promoted by filmmaker Michael Moore and directed by one of his longtime collaborators. It premiered last week at his Traverse City Film Festival.

 

The film, which does not yet have distribution, is a low-budget but piercing examination of what the filmmakers say are the false promises of the environmental movement and why we’re still “addicted” to fossil fuels. Director Jeff Gibbs takes on electric cars, solar panels, windmills, biomass, biofuel, leading environmentalist groups like the Sierra Club, and even figures from Al Gore and Van Jones, who served as Barack Obama’s special adviser for green jobs, to 350.org leader Bill McKibben, a leading environmentalist and advocate for grassroots climate change movements.

 

Gibbs, who produced Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine” and “Fahrenheit 9/11,” didn’t set out to take on the environmental movement. He said he wanted to know why things weren’t getting better. But when he started pulling on the thread, he and Moore said they were shocked to find how inextricably entangled alternative energy is with coal and natural gas, since they say everything from wind turbines to electric car charging stations are tethered to the grid, and even how the Koch brothers are tied to solar panel production through their glass production business.

 

 

https://www.weareiow...rnative-energy/

 

moore and others should simply come to the conclusion that not everything is a conspiracy.  that things are just of a result of the market we have now and it's not easy to just change things up and defy the laws of economics.



#2127 spanky123

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 01:21 PM

^ I think what Moore and others are finding is that a cause they championed for years has been overtaken by those who care more about making a profit then they do about saving the world. Same thing happens with every "cause" so there should have been no surprises. Doesn't mean that it doesn't sting however when you finally wake up.



#2128 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 01:45 PM

^ I think what Moore and others are finding is that a cause they championed for years has been overtaken by those who care more about making a profit then they do about saving the world. Same thing happens with every "cause" so there should have been no surprises. Doesn't mean that it doesn't sting however when you finally wake up.

 

i disagree.  every smart company maneuvers to be the most profitable in their sector.  why would legacy energy companies be any different?  these guys need also to understand that the economics of the thing mean that if oil demand goes down due to cheap alternatives the cost of oil also drops and then competes better with the alternatives.  that's why it's not easy for a massive shift to happen immediately.  



#2129 Mike K.

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 02:53 PM

It’s been profit motivated from the get go. But when your profit motives depend on government money there’s only so long you can keep pretending what you’re proposing is not a modern form of snake oil.

Reminds me of a conversation I once had with a nature lover (as am I) about wind farms.

“You know those turbines kill tremendous amounts of birds, right?”
“What?”

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#2130 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:50 PM

mostly stupid birds though right? smart birds will avoid them thus also advancing evolution a few ticks.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 11 August 2019 - 05:51 PM.


#2131 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:59 PM

now my cooling fans in my house have a cage around them front and back that absolutely must decrease their efficiency as well as add to their cost. why don’t wind turbines have the same?

#2132 spanky123

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 06:55 PM

mostly stupid birds though right? smart birds will avoid them thus also advancing evolution a few ticks.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that burning non-renewable fuels, banning med pot, or allowing harassment in the workplace is a good thing. What you must find outrageous though are the people who jump on the bandwagon after the fact who are solely interested in how they profit from the concern and then wind up poisoning the pool for everyone.



#2133 LJ

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:22 PM

Remember Y2K. Millions and millions of dollars spent because some computer whiz's thought everything would come to a standstill.

 

Some people made huge money off it.

 

Climate change emergency. Some people are making huge money off it.


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#2134 Jason-L

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:29 PM

Remember Y2K. Millions and millions of dollars spent because some computer whiz's thought everything would come to a standstill.

 

Some people made huge money off it.

 

Climate change emergency. Some people are making huge money off it.

To be fair, that investment and a lot of hard work kept everything from falling apart.  Luckily, the problem was identified early, there was investment made to solve it, and a lot people worked very hard to keep it from causing the worst-case-scenario from happening.



#2135 DustMagnet

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 10:18 PM

To be fair, that investment and a lot of hard work kept everything from falling apart.  Luckily, the problem was identified early, there was investment made to solve it, and a lot people worked very hard to keep it from causing the worst-case-scenario from happening.

 

We have 19 years until the next crisis/opportunity.



#2136 LJ

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 07:55 PM

To be fair, that investment and a lot of hard work kept everything from falling apart.  Luckily, the problem was identified early, there was investment made to solve it, and a lot people worked very hard to keep it from causing the worst-case-scenario from happening.

To be fair it turned out to be mostly a nothing burger. 

 

Climate change is a problem, but not a crisis or emergency, that is just to ramp up spending.


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#2137 dasmo

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:56 AM

The obvious sign of things being commandeered is the total abstraction and distraction away from real environmental problems and solutions. Like managing our forests better and making sure the right amount is un-managed entirely. Getting a recycling system actually working to reduce resource waste and pollution.  Stopping the poisoning of the environment and the people from every angle, our food, water, products, etc. Instead it's now about creating a carbon credit accounting system. This will not save the planet. It will only benefit "the elite".  It does nothing for the environment for gas based car companies to be paying Tesla $$ to make high end electric cars. On paper it's "Net Zero" but in reality their are huge lithium mines wrecking havoc, coal factories needed to create electricity, we are still using oil to make most of the car parts and fuel their movement around the globe etc.... The environmental movement peaked in the 90's. As soon as Reuse - Reduce - Recycle was exchanged for "reducing your carbon footprint" by buying all new green stuff it was the beginning of the end. 



#2138 Ismo07

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 02:47 PM

It’s been profit motivated from the get go. But when your profit motives depend on government money there’s only so long you can keep pretending what you’re proposing is not a modern form of snake oil.

Reminds me of a conversation I once had with a nature lover (as am I) about wind farms.

“You know those turbines kill tremendous amounts of birds, right?”
“What?”

 

Man-made structure/technology

Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats

Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines

130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial)

100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]

Pesticides

70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles

60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers

40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines

10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]

 

Not sure how they get these numbers but a long way to go...


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#2139 Mike K.

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 02:53 PM

There are fewer than 60,000 wind turbines in the US, so every year that wind turbine will kill upwards of 700 birds per year. That's a lot.


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#2140 Ismo07

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 03:00 PM

There are fewer than 60,000 wind turbines in the US, so every year that wind turbine will kill upwards of 700 birds per year. That's a lot.

 

Will most of them be seagulls though?  Yeah I appreciate how much the total will grow but c'mon.  If there was really a concern about birds we would start burying power lines, installing windows that don't fool birds, reduce pesticides, limit driving etc. 

 

As long as these wind farms aren't placed in migratory paths we should be fine no?



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