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The Climate Change / Global Warming Debate


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#1861 LeoVictoria

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 01:13 PM

Don't be so dramatic. Nobody is absolving themselves of all responsibility. You pass judgement on others so much that it can be difficult to even have a conversion with you on certain topics. Not liking carbon taxes /= not doing anything regarding climate change.l


Please do enlighten us what you are doing then.

A debate about whether carbon taxes are part of the solution or not would be refreshing. For example you might instead argue that investments into decarbonizing the grid are more effective. Or maybe incentivizing cleaner choices like EVs instead of taxing the dirtier ones. Or subsidizing foods with less of a carbon footprint, or researching ways to breed animals with a lesser impact. Or maybe we should look into our trade deals and set stringent standards on the climate impact of products. All reasonable positions to take but I don’t want to presuppose your non-taxation solutions, so go ahead with your ideas for how climate change should be addressed

#1862 LeoVictoria

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 01:19 PM

Guys, you gotta stop with teh sarcasm.... you're triggering Leo and he doesnt like that...this is a serious topic and only the true believers are supposed to post here.....dont make me report this to Sparky....you've been warned :rtfm: :drillsergeant: :farmer:


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#1863 Mike K.

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 02:20 PM

Please do enlighten us what you are doing then.


I’m putting in a 20” lift kit on my F-450 just to stay ahead of the rising sea level curve.
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#1864 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 02:30 PM

Please do enlighten us what you are doing then.

A debate about whether carbon taxes are part of the solution or not would be refreshing. For example you might instead argue that investments into decarbonizing the grid are more effective. Or maybe incentivizing cleaner choices like EVs instead of taxing the dirtier ones. Or subsidizing foods with less of a carbon footprint, or researching ways to breed animals with a lesser impact. Or maybe we should look into our trade deals and set stringent standards on the climate impact of products. All reasonable positions to take but I don’t want to presuppose your non-taxation solutions, so go ahead with your ideas for how climate change should be addressed


how high will the carbon tax have to be to get majority public support behind more hydro dams and nuclear plants?

because if we are only going to replace oil and gas with solar and wind it’s simply never going to work.

#1865 Bob Fugger

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:03 PM

I think you can get solar to work, but it has to be on a large scale.

If you repurpose some proportion of BC Hydro’s Capital budget, for example, and use it significantly subsidize the one time purchases of rooftop solar for residential and commercial customers, you could defer or eliminate the R&M budget on them, as end consumers would be ultimately responsible. Better still, repurpose that budget to pay a higher rate to buy power from consumers to further encourage uptake. I’ll bet a solar power unit on every rooftop - southern BC in particular gets hundreds of hours of direct sunlight per year - you could quietly end of line capital assets without having to replace them.

#1866 Mike K.

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:23 PM

If we want to play the non-hydro renewable energy game we should focus on tidal energy and leave solar to other jurisdictions.

In my opinion mass solar investments are a waste of money. During peak energy requirement periods (namely winter cold snaps) solar power is literally unavailable for 14-15 hours a day, and for half of the available hours its production is ultra low, and that’s IF the weather is clear. Furthermore capturing the energy requires expensive batteries and storage is limited. And that’s before we even get into the scenario of obstructed panels due to snow/seagull crap/dirt/whatever.

BC Hydro is called BC Hydro for a reason and extending its mandate into uncharted territory, just because, could end up a disastrously expensive experiment with little value to British Columbians.

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#1867 jonny

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:31 PM

Tidal? Lol. Tidal has been a massive flop.

#1868 Mike K.

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:39 PM

This non-hydro renewable energy game is really hard to play.

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#1869 todd

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:11 PM

I’m putting in a 20” lift kit on my F-450 just to stay ahead of the rising sea level curve.


I just throw the old parts on the coastline help build up a levee.

#1870 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:26 PM

This non-hydro renewable energy game is really hard to play.


it is and we will need 75 more site c dams if we can’t do solar and wind.

#1871 jonny

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:26 PM

The environmentally friendly options from an air pollution perspective that actually can produce huge amounts of reliable power are nuclear and hydro, which are astronomically expensive to install and require gigantic government subsidization.

#1872 Mike K.

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:58 PM

I just throw the old parts on the coastline help build up a levee.


You’ll thank me when I pull your F-250 out of the drink.
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#1873 nerka

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:38 PM

https://www.clcounci...ists-statement/

 

Amazing how mainstream the idea of a carbon tax and dividend is among economists.  The signatories of this include a lot of Republican stalwarts.



#1874 Mike K.

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 10:24 AM

It’s not a left or right thing. It’s a revenue grab.

BC has decoupled the tax from revenue neutrality despite the tax being implemented as revenue neutral. That tells us all we need to know.

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#1875 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 10:57 AM

https://www.clcounci...ists-statement/



Amazing how mainstream the idea of a carbon tax and dividend is among economists. The signatories of this include a lot of Republican stalwarts.

any amateur economist will tell you taxing carbon will lead to less usage. if that’s the goal of course it works.

but it might inflict greater damage to the economy as a whole. especially when it’s not done lockstep with our nearest competing industry ie. the US.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 10 February 2019 - 10:58 AM.


#1876 Mike K.

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:00 AM

It’s one thing to tax cigarettes and alcohol, but it’s quite another to tax gasoline when your society is depending on personal vehicles for mobility.

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#1877 Mattjvd

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 01:10 PM

It’s one thing to tax cigarettes and alcohol, but it’s quite another to tax gasoline when your society is depending on personal vehicles for mobility.


Taxes that internalize (in price) an externality like carbon taxes are best used when a substitute for the taxed product is close in price. Use the tax to slightly increase the cost of the fuels and slightly subsidize the alternative, artificially causing the tipping point early. We're almost there for personal vehicles, long distance vehicles and heavy vehicles are further away.
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#1878 LJ

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 07:03 PM

Or we could just do away with entire industries with the green new deal....

 

http://thefederalist...green-new-deal/


Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#1879 jonny

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:05 AM

Taxes that internalize (in price) an externality like carbon taxes are best used when a substitute for the taxed product is close in price. Use the tax to slightly increase the cost of the fuels and slightly subsidize the alternative, artificially causing the tipping point early. We're almost there for personal vehicles, long distance vehicles and heavy vehicles are further away.

 

The problem for us is:

Electric vehicles are not that close. We're still talking 10-15 years for widespread uptake. 

There are little to no alternatives to fossil fuels. Wind and solar are still fringe alternatives at best and pipe dreams at worst. 

Future electrical installation is going to be insanely expensive (see Site C). We can no longer rely on hydro station built for dirt cheap in the 50's, 60's and 70's. 

Our carbon taxes don't even pretend to not be tax grabs. 

Our carbon taxes are probably too low to significantly alter behaviour. 

Carbon taxes are regressive.

Government is simply too greedy.


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#1880 spanky123

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:34 AM

Or we could just do away with entire industries with the green new deal....

 

http://thefederalist...green-new-deal/

 

This is the point I made earlier. We take what is likely a worthwhile cause (ie greenhouse gas emission) and then the radicals usurp the message and twist it into something they can leverage for personal gain.  



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