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Tipping and service industry discussion


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#41 G-Man

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:31 AM

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."

#42 gumgum

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:30 AM

Smith's has the worst servers in downtown Victoria, so I'm not surprised.
I go there for the music and the beer but I always leave shaking my head at the stupidity.

#43 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:36 AM

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."


Ya, I understand this. No bartender is pleased when 8 people in a row want a drink that requires a blender as part of the operation.

There was only two other sets of people in the place.

Now, she would have had to gone into the kitchen to get it, and YES, I understand some cooks are assholes and would consider a major intrusion if she went in there and got it herself.

But here is the thing about finger-bowls. If anyone knows me, you know that I'm likely wearing at least one item of clothing that requires professional drycleaning. And if you deliver me something that can not be eaten with knife and fork, then I'm gonna want to make sure I can clean my hands. For example, I don't eat fries with my hands, I use knife and fork. I also use KNIFE and fork, you won't see me at the table with fork in right hand, and knife unheld. So, when I get 20 wings (10 hot, between two of us), 4 napkins ain't gonna cut it. And I'm also sure the waitress doesn't particularly like clearing a plate heaped up with napkins full of hot sauce too. No one is a fan of brushing against others food upon cleanup.

On a side note, Smith's has a City notice on the door, indicating they are applying to extend their licence to 2am on Friday and Sat. nights from their current 1am. Interesting - I was invlolved with an application indentical to that with the last council, and we were turned down 5-4 by council. IIRC, Fortin, TJ were part of the NOs, Coleman and Holland part of the YESes. I'll look up my notes on the others.

#44 G-Man

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:08 AM

^ Usually coffee machines in a server station have a hot water spout, that is what I always used. The less time upsetting the kitchen staff the better, as they control your staff meals.

#45 Bob Fugger

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:08 AM

But here is the thing about finger-bowls. If anyone knows me, you know that I'm likely wearing at least one item of clothing that requires professional drycleaning. And if you deliver me something that can not be eaten with knife and fork, then I'm gonna want to make sure I can clean my hands. For example, I don't eat fries with my hands, I use knife and fork.


Do you eat your Snickers bar with a knife and fork, too? *snicker* :)



#46 Bingo

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:32 AM

The first time I saw a finger bowl I complained that the soup was a bit thin, and that I didn't know it came with the meal.

As for french fries the only way to enjoy them is wrapped in an newspaper cone with the malt vinegar leaking out and down your arm.

#47 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:31 PM

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."


Ah, but the conspiracy thickens.

So tonight, I went to the largest bar and entertainment complex in the city (completely forgetting Ross Crockford and I had a date at the NPNA meeting - I'm sure he held his own there). I happened to be sitting next to one of the owners. He ordered a bunch of wings, and ordered up a bunch of extra plates for those of us sitting around him. Of course, I asked him if we could get finger bowls. He promptly asked the server, and indeed she brought them, but full of cold water.

WTF?

Granted, this place only runs cold water through their bathroom sinks, but still, could we have had some warm water in the bowls?

#48 concorde

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:35 PM

As a general rule I tip 10% for average service, 15% for good service.

what really angers me is the automatic 20% tip for groups of say 8 or more. what that says to me they don't have to do anything special, just provide average service and automatically get an inflated tip. In some cases I've just taken a pen, scratched out their automatic tip and paid in cash, leaving no tip.

#49 yodsaker

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:52 PM

Its my money and the tip is up to me. Period. Full stop.
Do the job properly, you get a tip.:) I know all about the wage disparity yadayada.
Do your job in a lazy, inefficient, surly manner and mess up my experience, you don't get a tip.:mad:
Pretty simple once you get past the entitlement mindset.

#50 G-Man

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:12 PM

^

what really angers me is the automatic 20% tip for groups of say 8 or more. what that says to me they don't have to do anything special, just provide average service and automatically get an inflated tip. In some cases I've just taken a pen, scratched out their automatic tip and paid in cash, leaving no tip.


The added on tip is there because in general when ten bozos go out for drinks each of them assumes that someone else has covered their tip or worse someone thinks they can comp their night on your tips.

I cannot count the amount of times I have chased people into parking lots to get five bucks just cover the full 400 dollar bill. At least that way they know that I am sitting there out 20 bucks after my tip outs.

If you don't like the rule don't go to places that have it or make sure you know how much your friends are actually paying.

No server would ask for a rule like this if it wasn't necessary, it caps your tip and with a GOOD group you can work 25% or more if you provide really prompt accurate service.

#51 Holden West

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:14 PM

what really angers me is the automatic 20% tip for groups of say 8 or more. what that says to me they don't have to do anything special, just provide average service and automatically get an inflated tip.


Taking care of large groups is tough. The reason that policy was implemented was all too often the server would get stiffed on the tip. There's always a few cheapskates or nimrods who say to themselves, "my burger was $11 bucks; I'll throw in $12". Of course, they forget the tax, and oh yeah, the Coke...but that was only a buck or two.

So the server that worked their butt off caring for the big table gets shafted while her colleague beside her cranked out three or four small tables during the same time and made good cash.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#52 Holden West

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:15 PM

^


The added on tip is there because in general when ten bozos go out for drinks each of them assumes that someone else has covered their tip or worse someone thinks they can comp their night on your tips.

I cannot count the amount of times I have chased people into parking lots to get five bucks just cover the full 400 dollar bill. At least that way they know that I am sitting there out 20 bucks after my tip outs.

If you don't like the rule don't go to places that have it or make sure you know how much your friends are actually paying.

No server would ask for a rule like this if it wasn't necessary, it caps your tip and with a GOOD group you can work 25% or more if you provide really prompt accurate service.


Thanks, you beat me to it.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#53 concorde

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:54 AM

If I still worked for someone else, I would love to go my boss at Christmas time and tell him that I worked really hard all year, made him tons of money and I want 20-25% automatic tip on the total revenue I produced.

Lets see, so I take a bunch of people out for a nice meal, say its $500 and they get an automatic tip of $100. The meal probably took 2-3 hours by the time we all leave. The waiter is on for shift for another 5-6 hours, so they can still pull down easily another $100 in tips, and I'm being conservative. Don't forget their base wage of $64 for the shift. Total $264 for a day, or around $33/hr. Lets compare that to a construction labourer, working his/her ass off, moving materials, outside where its cold or wet and they are making say $13-15/hr with zero chance for tips.

There are many people in this world who make the same wage as waiters and work just as hard, but they never see a dime in tips, so why do waiters automatically think they get it? And of course every cent of their tips is declared to Revenue Canada (laughs).

#54 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 10:05 AM

If I still worked for someone else, I would love to go my boss at Christmas time and tell him that I worked really hard all year, made him tons of money and I want 20-25% automatic tip on the total revenue I produced.

Lets see, so I take a bunch of people out for a nice meal, say its $500 and they get an automatic tip of $100. The meal probably took 2-3 hours by the time we all leave. The waiter is on for shift for another 5-6 hours, so they can still pull down easily another $100 in tips, and I'm being conservative. Don't forget their base wage of $64 for the shift. Total $264 for a day, or around $33/hr. Lets compare that to a construction labourer, working his/her ass off, moving materials, outside where its cold or wet and they are making say $13-15/hr with zero chance for tips.

There are many people in this world who make the same wage as waiters and work just as hard, but they never see a dime in tips, so why do waiters automatically think they get it? And of course every cent of their tips is declared to Revenue Canada (laughs).


I can agree with some of this, not all. Most service workers work short shifts, and often are told to knock off early, or even with some employers, "show up, and if it gets busy, we'll start you". Some might only get to turn 3 or 4 tables in a shift (see: Cactus Club, Earl's).

I think the built-in gratuity is fine if it is indicated (I think it always is), if you don't like it, don't go to that place.

I agree, a server can make good money, but I swear some don't try very hard. I often shake my head.

The next server that gives me A) a finger bowl and B) that finger bowl has warm water, is going to get a big tip. Double if I don't have to ask for the bowl.

#55 Holden West

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 10:21 AM

The waiter is on for shift for another 5-6 hours, so they can still pull down easily another $100 in tips, and I'm being conservative. Don't forget their base wage of $64 for the shift. Total $264 for a day, or around $33/hr.


Believe me, days like that are few and far between. A handful of servers that get the best shifts and the most popular restaurants perhaps, but for the vast majority of servers for every shift like Concorde mentions there's another shift spent futilely waiting for customers because of bad weather or something until the manager sends you home empty handed.

It's the same lame, bogus argument NIMBYs use when they claim every developer automatically makes millions in profit on every construction project.

The next server that gives me A) a finger bowl and B) that finger bowl has warm water, is going to get a big tip. Double if I don't have to ask for the bowl.


I think everyone here has to go out and research this. We'll make up a big chart with columns for finger bowl brought without asking, after asking and not brought despite being asked.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#56 G-Man

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 10:41 AM

If I still worked for someone else, I would love to go my boss at Christmas time and tell him that I worked really hard all year, made him tons of money and I want 20-25% automatic tip on the total revenue I produced.

Lets see, so I take a bunch of people out for a nice meal, say its $500 and they get an automatic tip of $100. The meal probably took 2-3 hours by the time we all leave. The waiter is on for shift for another 5-6 hours, so they can still pull down easily another $100 in tips, and I'm being conservative. Don't forget their base wage of $64 for the shift. Total $264 for a day, or around $33/hr. Lets compare that to a construction labourer, working his/her ass off, moving materials, outside where its cold or wet and they are making say $13-15/hr with zero chance for tips.

There are many people in this world who make the same wage as waiters and work just as hard, but they never see a dime in tips, so why do waiters automatically think they get it? And of course every cent of their tips is declared to Revenue Canada (laughs).



Servers can in some restaurants get good tips at Christmas but that is one month a year and generally Christmas parties are dolled out by server to be somewhat fair. So you may get one or two maybe three in a small place in a month. To compare serving to construction is not a fair comparison. While on a site those workers will get a similar wage from week to week whereas the only money a server can count on is their wage of 8 bucks an hour and has been pointed out 8hr shifts are not the norm it used to be 4 hour shifts because you were required to pay someone for 4 hours no matter what, not sure if that has changed.

Servers get just as many shifts where they walk out with 10 dollars in tips as shifts where they walk out with 100.

Despite what you or any others on here think, I have had a lot of jobs including doing general labour on a construction site, and working in the service industry was by far the hardest job I have ever had.

This is why I got out. I have a huge amount of respect for people that do it for a living and those amazing servers out there that make you go back to a place are truly amazing.

#57 piltdownman

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 10:55 AM

At one place I use to work during University didn't have a group autograt, and we had this woman that would bring in a group of 6 to 8 people every week. What she would do is get the money from everyone else and then come up to the front and pay the exact amount of the bill no gratuity at all. She would pay for her meal with everyone else's tips, and sometimes I would watch her pocket any excess. She drove me batty. I eventually started automatically giving separate checks to her tables and sometimes that worked and sometimes it didn't.

On the other side of things ... and maybe it says alot about the company I keep ... but when I go out with a group I'm always the last guy sitting at the table after everyone else has left trying to figure out how we are still $40 short pre-tip and having to make up the difference.

#58 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 11:09 AM

At one place I use to work during University didn't have a group autograt, and we had this woman that would bring in a group of 6 to 8 people every week. What she would do is get the money from everyone else and then come up to the front and pay the exact amount of the bill no gratuity at all. She would pay for her meal with everyone else's tips, and sometimes I would watch her pocket any excess. She drove me batty. I eventually started automatically giving separate checks to her tables and sometimes that worked and sometimes it didn't.

On the other side of things ... and maybe it says alot about the company I keep ... but when I go out with a group I'm always the last guy sitting at the table after everyone else has left trying to figure out how we are still $40 short pre-tip and having to make up the difference.


I'll admit to taking one of two courses of action:

A) I'll make sure it gets worked out WHEN people chip in, before they get away - I'll be the heavy in the group maintaining order

or

B) I'll pay my fair share (YES, I know how to add both taxes properly and a tip), but then high-tail it out of there before the last person gets stuck because of others.

#59 Caramia

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 03:56 PM

I disagree with the 20% automatic gratuity, but I have no problem with a 15% automatic gratuity. It assumes the service will be average. If the service was exceptional, I'm happy to tip more.

The next server that gives me A) a finger bowl and B) that finger bowl has warm water, is going to get a big tip. Double if I don't have to ask for the bowl.


I think everyone here has to go out and research this. We'll make up a big chart with columns for finger bowl brought without asking, after asking and not brought despite being asked.


I'm in! I love this idea, lol.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#60 Bingo

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 07:25 PM

Last time I was in New Zealand there was no tipping allowed, and the gratutity was included in the price of the meal. Likewise,there was no sales tax added. The sticker price was what you paid.

I think the servers are in for the short end of the stick once the HST kicks in, that's if people are still eating out.

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