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South Island Aboriginal and First Nations issues and discussion


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#261 Mike K.

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 07:11 PM

King of the world?

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#262 Love the rock

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 11:06 PM

I don’t have a problem with it being offered as a language course in school at all .
Sad thing is I doubt that having it offered in schools as a language course will keep the language alive .Reason being people resort to what’s easiest to get there points across. A good example is French language taught in school . How many kids have been taught French in schools use that language to communicate to anyone. Kids who have eight years of French immersion who haven’t used it loose it pretty quick . They can speak French with classmates ,never heard of anyone doing it voluntary . Start offering it to the elders first for a few years . Let the families get the grammar and pronunciation down first then offer it in schools. They can push the kids at home .

#263 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 03:52 AM

first nations students already have dismal academic success rates.  why take away other instructional time for an obscure language?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 September 2019 - 03:52 AM.


#264 Mike K.

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:47 AM

Chris Selley: Somehow, the missing and murdered Indigenous women inquiry just got worse - https://nationalpost...-just-got-worse

The final report alleges “Indigenous women and girls now make up almost 25 per cent of homicide victims,” when of course it’s 25 per cent of female homicide victims. In her preface, commissioner Michèle Audette claims “statistics show … Indigenous women and girls are 12 times more likely to be murdered or missing than any other women in Canada.” Statistics Canada pegs it at around 2.7 times more likely.

“We were on the ground, we were with the families,” Audette explained. “Sometimes we were able to see that numbers don’t connect to the reality on the ground.”

This validated widespread concerns that the inquiry was disastrously uninterested in collecting actual data about victims, perpetrators and circumstances, but it gets worse: Corrections made to the report in light of CBC’s inquiries are not annotated, nor have they been included in all versions — including the official one filed with the government.


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#265 amor de cosmos

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:01 AM

The Nuxalk Nation, near Bella Coola, B.C., is installing stop signs in the Nuxalk language as a way to promote their traditional language.

Evangeline Hanuse, the language enthusiast who helped spearhead the effort, says she was inspired by other First Nations communities in B.C. that have installed their own signs.

"It's just a small idea but ... it's one easy way that you can learn one word that doesn't need to be translated," Hanuse said.


nuxalk-signs.jpg

https://www.cbc.ca/n...uxalk-1.5287592

PS- why are first-nations languages always referred to as "traditional"? does anyone call english a "traditional language", even in england? what if someone from the bbc pointed out that boris johnson answered questions in parliament in his "traditional language", and isn't that wonderful look at him go! as if it's from another time & place. or when alliance française opens a location in a new city & celebrates bastille day nobody says it's to promote france's "traditional language & culture" you get the picture

#266 Mike K.

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:13 AM

How would one pronounce tsayalhx?

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#267 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:26 AM

who needs clean drinking water when you can spend money on stop signs. that really need no letters.

#268 amor de cosmos

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:39 AM

How would one pronounce tsayalhx?


someone says it in the first 30 seconds of the interview in the link. the lh you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth & blow out, & the x to me sounds not quite like the ch in loch, but definitely a heavier h sound. the rest seems to be pronounced the way it looks

#269 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:43 AM

why do these languages not use the traditional written characters?

oh yes because natives never developed a written version. seems like a poor language to revive/keep.

#270 Rob Randall

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:23 AM

Some languages have no written characters because they weren't needed. Our written alphabet likely came from the need to track complex agricultural trades among peoples. Salish trading was simpler, and involved people sharing a common language. 

 

Cultures around the world invented/adapted written language as the need arose. 



#271 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:46 AM

you needed it if you wanted an advanced society one could argue.

#272 laconic

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:01 AM

Some languages have changed written alphabets many times, though the current change is drawing some criticism (such as using special characters that make the words difficult to google)

 

https://www.nytimes....nazarbayev.html



#273 Mike K.

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:03 AM

From the City of Victoria:

 

Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues Begin September 30: Dialogue #1 - Lekwungen Knowledge and the Land

 

The public is invited to participate in the Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues, a six-part series of conversations that will enable the community to explore together what Reconciliation could look like on Lekwungen territory.

 

Guided by members of Lekwungen Nations and the City Family, Mayor Lisa Helps, members of City Council and special guests, the conversations will seek to build the community’s knowledge and understanding of Reconciliation – what it is, why it is needed, and why community conversations about Reconciliation are important.

 

“We are convening the Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues in order for the community to have important conversations,” said Mayor Lisa Helps. “We’ll be talking about what it means to have built a city on someone else’s homelands, about newcomers and reconciliation, about the role of historical monuments like the Sir John A. Macdonald statue, and about youth envisioning our future.”

 

Over the next 11 months, the Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues will provide opportunities for Indigenous and non-Indigenous people to come together to share their ideas and stories, and explore how we as a community can make the culture, history and modern reality of local Indigenous Peoples become present and apparent throughout the city, and understood and valued in people’s everyday lives.

 

The first conversation, Dialogue #1: Lekwungen Knowledge and the Land, will introduce Reconciliation by drawing on the guidance of Lekwungen Elders and members about the land on which we live. Guided by Florence Dick of the Songhees Nation and Victoria City Councillor Marianne Alto, Dialogue #1 will take place Monday, September 30 from 6 p.m. - 8:30 p.m. approximately at Victoria City Hall. Doors will open at 5:30 p.m. NOTE: The end time for each Dialogue will depend on the length of the conversation.

 

The format of the conversations will vary and may include storytelling, discussion and other forms of Indigenous learning. As the sharing of personal stories can trigger strong emotions, a counsellor will be on hand at each conversation.

The Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues series is free to attend and all are welcome. Free childminding will be available (up to two hours) and complimentary refreshments will be provided.

 

The Victoria Reconciliation Dialogues will build on the City’s Witness Reconciliation Program, established in 2017 to bring together Indigenous representatives from both the Esquimalt and Songhees Nations as well as urban Indigenous Peoples, Mayor Lisa Helps, and representatives from City Council and staff, forming a group called the City Family.

 

https://www.victoria...nd-the-lan.html


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#274 Rob Randall

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:09 AM

you needed it if you wanted an advanced society one could argue.

 

If you spend enough time on this website you will realize the acquisition of a written language did little to advance our intelligence.


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#275 Mike K.

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:12 AM

If you spend enough time on this website you will realize the acquisition of a written language did little to advance our intelligence.

 

No kidding. The proof of that are the op-eds in the New York Times we link to.


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#276 amor de cosmos

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:54 AM

Some languages have changed written alphabets many times, though the current change is drawing some criticism (such as using special characters that make the words difficult to google)
 
https://www.nytimes....nazarbayev.html


i think that's kind of nonsense. they're easy to google with the right alt codes, say for umlauts as they would use with the turkish alphabet, and with practice one can memorize them
https://sites.psu.ed...indows/codealt/

edit: someone can also set the language in windows to just about any other one which will change the keyboard layout, and then type things into google as usual using the keyboard layout for that language, or country/region

Edited by amor de cosmos, 18 September 2019 - 10:14 AM.


#277 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:59 AM

the conversations will seek to build the community’s knowledge and understanding of Reconciliation – what it is, why it is needed, and why community conversations about Reconciliation are important.




that’s all fine. but where did the public weigh in to agree and/or where did courts tell us this was mandatory? where’s that conversation? who in the above statement deemed it needed for example. I don’t recall voting on it or having any consultation on it.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 18 September 2019 - 10:01 AM.


#278 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:20 AM

also what’s the reconciliation timeline? when is it over or is it open-ended? what’s the minimum and maximum financial ramifications for city taxpayers? and where are the oak bay esquimalt and saanich reconciliations at? do we all reconcile individually in each municipality?

#279 laconic

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:30 AM

i think that's kind of nonsense. they're easy to google with the right alt codes, say for umlauts as they would use with the turkish alphabet, and with practice one can memorize them
https://sites.psu.ed...indows/codealt/

edit: someone can also set the language in windows to just about any other one which will change the keyboard layout, and then type things into google as usual using the keyboard layout for that language, or country/region

 

The use of 'google' was probably an unfortunate choice of words on my part. The main idea was supposed to be about the change in character set. On the other hand, the resulting comment shows how most people would find an alternate character set to be a barrier to learning a language.

 

I enjoy learning bits of new languages.  If I pass by the James Bay Library and see the sign, I'm not going to remember anything about the indigenous name. I wouldn't have an easy time typing it into my phone or remembering it. Google Lens, bless its multilingual heart, probably wouldn't identify it. Even if I had enough interest to take a picture, it would be a sleuthing effort to find a translation.

 

Many of the written Canadian indigenous languages use some rather arbitrary character sets that were established long ago, often by missionaries. Changing to a character set that is familiar to the other residents of the area would be less of a barrier and would give the language a better chance of survival.



#280 amor de cosmos

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:35 AM

How would one pronounce tsayalhx?

btw the lh & x sounds are represented by L & X in our local languages, if anyone cares
 

also what’s the reconciliation timeline? when is it over or is it open-ended? what’s the minimum and maximum financial ramifications for city taxpayers? and where are the oak bay esquimalt and saanich reconciliations at? do we all reconcile individually in each municipality?

well due to the inquisition against the spanish & portuguese jews, their descendants are eligible to get citizenship in those two countries (with some other strings attached), and so are descendants of holocaust victims in germany. so i would say the reconciliation process is still going, at least in those places

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