1737 replies to this topic

[Tony]

With results like that perhaps it is time for a change?

[Victoria Watcher]

A change to what though? The residential school closed in 1971. There is no proposed change from the current.

How about instead we provide opportunities for these folks to come away from the economic backwoods and enjoy other prosperous opportunities?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 October 2025 - 04:10 PM.

[LJ]

A change to what though? The residential school closed in 1971. There is no proposed change from the current.

How about instead we provide opportunities for these folks to come away from the economic backwoods and enjoy other prosperous opportunities?

They don't want to do that; they want to preserve their languages and culture, which will keep them in the economic backwoods forever. 

[Victoria Watcher]

‘Groundbreaking’: English literacy program focuses on training for Indigenous people in Greater Victoria

 

 

 

 

A Nanaimo-based literacy program designed to help English literacy skills for residential school survivors is thriving quietly at a Greater Victoria library every week.

 

The Literacy Circle, although welcoming to everyone, aims to help Indigenous Elders, adults, and residential and day school survivors learn English literacy skills in a supportive and safe environment.

 

Originally started during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2021, the Literacy Circle has now expanded to Victoria.

 

“Due to the ongoing effects of residential school systems and day schools, we were looking at just kind of ways to honour the Elders and being respectful of the history they had with traditional school settings,” said Valerie Houle, the programs executive director.

 

Many residential school survivors came out of the school system with little to no reading and writing skills, says Houle.

 

https://cheknews.ca/...ctoria-1283779/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 October 2025 - 01:45 AM.

[dasmo]

Because after a foreign government evicted you, burned your house down and made it illegal to do what you do it’s perfectly reasonable to expect you would be excited to learn their language….

[Tony]

They don't want to do that; they want to preserve their languages and culture, which will keep them in the economic backwoods forever. 

 

Bilingual skills are generally good for learning outcomes and intelectual development of children.

Edited by Tony, 16 October 2025 - 09:31 AM.

[LJ]

Bilingual skills are generally good for learning outcomes and intelectual development of children.

Apparently, they have to learn English first, according to the Literacy Circle.

[Tony]

Similar positive outcomes even if children start at a young age with a first language then add a second..

 

Even if only a small number of homes speak their native language, English will not be the first and only language children in those families  will learn. I doubt any First Nations education group  would discourge the learning of their own language,

[dasmo]

No grave digging necessary. Government policy and action/inaction is documented. It's all the proof needed to understand the history of the schools. They were created to "Kill the Indian, save the man." They weren't created as a benefit to the people. 

 

The 1907 Report on the Indian Schools of Manitoba and the North-West by Peter Henderson Bryce revealed shockingly high death rates—averaging 24% and reaching as high as 69% in some schools—among Indigenous children in residential institutions. Bryce attributed these deaths primarily to tuberculosis, worsened by overcrowding, poor ventilation, and malnutrition. He outlined straightforward public health measures to reduce mortality, but the federal government failed to act. Instead, in the years that followed, the government stopped systematically reporting and tracking student deaths, effectively burying the crisis. This neglect and suppression became a defining early example of state inaction in the face of Indigenous suffering.

 

[dasmo]

Note, I got Chat GPT to research "the Bryce Report." Then drill down to produce that info graphic and intro paragraph. It ran for about one minute to dig which was interesting as it wasn't instant. I also had it summarize the findings into a one pager.

 

Summary: Report on the Indian Schools of Manitoba
and the North-West (1907)
This briefing summarizes the 1907 report by Dr. Peter Henderson Bryce, Chief Medical Officer for the
Department of the Interior and Indian Affairs. The report documented catastrophic mortality rates
among Indigenous children in residential and industrial schools in Manitoba and the North-West, and
the federal government’s failure to implement recommended public health measures.
1. Mortality Rates
"It is to be noted that of a total of 31 pupils returned as discharged from the File Hills Industrial School, 20
are reported dead." (p. 18)
"In one school… the mortality reaches 69 per cent of all discharged pupils." (p. 19)
"In 15 schools from which returns have been received, having a total enrollment of 1,537 pupils, 326 deaths
are reported, or 24 per cent of the total." (p. 19)
2. Causes of Death and Conditions
"Of the 326 deaths reported, nearly all are stated to have been due to tuberculosis." (p. 20)
"That these children should die at such a rate, and from such a preventable cause, argues a lack of sanitary
care and of adequate medical supervision which it is the duty of the Department to provide." (p. 20)
"In many cases, the dormitories are over-crowded and ill-ventilated… affording a most favourable
environment for the propagation of disease." (p. 15)
"The system under which tubercular pupils are admitted and allowed to remain in residence must be
considered, from a medical standpoint, criminal." (p. 21)
3. Bryce’s Recommendations
"No child suffering from tuberculosis should be admitted to a residential school, nor should any child in
whom the disease develops be allowed to remain." (p. 21)
"All dormitories should be thoroughly ventilated and cubic air space regulated by medical authority." (p. 22)
"Medical inspection should be conducted annually by qualified officers, and all sanitary recommendations
enforced." (p. 23)
"If these measures are not adopted, the appalling mortality can only continue." (p. 23)
4. Government Response (1907)
"Although the Medical Department has strongly urged the necessity of proper sanitary measures, the
Department of Indian Affairs has not found it convenient to give effect to them." (p. 24)
"This neglect has already borne bitter fruit." (p. 24)

[Mike K.]

Why does it have spelling and grammatical mistakes, if it's AI?

[dasmo]

Why does it have spelling and grammatical mistakes, if it's AI?

They are probably in the report being referenced that is a PDF. They might be from however the digital version was created. If it was for a dissertation one would need to proof read and read the source material and double check. But still a lot less work to get to the sources etc. 

 

I was listening to a Canadian History Audio book  that referenced the report and thus had the specific name to start. I see the pattern of government projects that have the veneer of paternal "good" but result in the opposite. This perked my interest years ago to begin researching "the Indian Problem" as part of our history. I see many things that were not bad. Like the 150 odd years of cohabitation and mutual benefit.  Even though the Douglas Treaties are obvious BS, I think Douglas was between a rock and a hard place and was a good man. He had orders from head office in London after all. There is evidence that he was decent in the provision in those treaties that they still benefit by AND that when the pressure was on to move the Songhees, again, from what is now VicWest, he pushed back and did not oblige. At least he was a man of his word. After he was gone, it happened swiftly though.

 

It is a fascinating period to me because I consider it OUR history and would like more real truth about it. 

[dasmo]

Good point to always ask the AI to fix grammar and spelling. 

Edited by dasmo, 17 October 2025 - 10:15 AM.

[Mike K.]

I saw AI converting liquid volumes recently. 2.7 quarts was somehow converted to 8.78 litres.

 

I.e. AI said "2.7 quarts (8.78 litres) are required for this job."

 

AI probably shouldn't be used to put together historical accounts.

[dasmo]

It’s pulling from the report haha. It’s why you need specifics like the name of the report. It’s not making it up. I used it to save me from haven’t to find a digital version and to pull out the highlights.

You need to be specific otherwise it can and sometimes will make stuff up. It’s prime objective it to give an answer with authority. I also have experience with this. But, you can ask it to verify its work. Like in this instance I asked for it to provide the sources.

[dasmo]

Quick summary — Report on the Indian Schools of Manitoba and the North-West (P. H. Bryce, 1907)

What the report was: a government-commissioned medical inspection (Chief Medical Officer P. H. Bryce) of 34 industrial/boarding “Indian” schools in Manitoba and the North-West (published 1907). Bryce recorded the sanitary conditions, disease patterns, and the health outcomes of pupils and ex-pupils, and made recommendations to reduce deaths.

https://ia600100.us....iansc00bryc.pdf
 

Mortality rates and main causes

Bryce’s survey data showed very high death rates among children associated with these schools: from his tabulated returns of 15 schools (average follow-up ~14 years), about 24% of the pupils reported were dead; in some individual schools ex-pupil death rates were far higher (Bryce cites examples of 47% and even 69% in particular returns). The principal cause given where known was consumption (tuberculosis).
https://ia600100.us....iansc00bryc.pdf
 

Bryce connected those deaths to overcrowding, poor ventilation and sanitation, inadequate diet and clothing, and insufficient medical care — conditions that allowed tuberculosis and other infections to spread.
https://ia600100.us....iansc00bryc.pdf
 

Government response (then and afterward)

Short term: although Bryce’s 1907 report was formally submitted and parts were published, his detailed recommendations were not acted on at scale. Contemporary and later accounts say his more forceful recommendations (to exclude tubercular children, improve buildings, increase medical attention/funding) were effectively suppressed or ignored by senior officials in Indian Affairs.
https://www.dorchest...ryce-really-say
 

Bryce repeatedly pressed the department for change; instead he encountered institutional resistance. Sources describe him being discouraged from publicizing what he saw, and later (after continued advocacy) he published a fuller indictment in his 1922 book The Story of a National Crime. Historians and Indigenous organizations interpret the government’s inaction as a major reason the high death rates continued for years.
https://fncaringsoci...ation_sheet.pdf
 

Longer term / legacy: Bryce’s work is now widely cited by historians and by the Truth and Reconciliation literature as early, authoritative evidence that Canada knew about catastrophic mortality in residential schools and failed to fix the problems. The Government of Canada and many institutions have since formally acknowledged residential-school harms; Bryce himself has been recognized posthumously for exposing the crisis.
https://www.publicsa...4-vol.4-eng.pdf
 

[Mike K.]

And just to confirm, I’m not questioning Bryce’s research, just noting the AI quirks.

[dasmo]

I also asked it specifically to focus on mortality rates and find that info since that is what we are talking about. This is damning of the government and it's policies and inaction. This is why this is not talked about but rather this "unmarked graves." distraction is brought forward. That doesn't even mater when there is plenty of documentation of the discretions of  the foreign corporation that took over this land and the government that it formed into. 

[Tony]

And just to confirm, I’m not questioning Bryce’s research, just noting the AI quirks.

By focussing on spelling errors on the Ai generated information it appears to me that may seem to question the accuracy of the information as well .

 

Perhaps a more appropriate focus for a discussion of Ai accuracy.

All sources accuracy needs to be checked.

 

It reminds me of my school days when answering questions about novels studied, for every spelling mistake a mark was deducted. Is the content of the response not more important than the spelling was my claim always to no avail.

[Mike K.]

By focussing on spelling errors on the Ai generated information it appears to me that may seem to question the accuracy of the information as well .

Perhaps a more appropriate focus for a discussion of Ai accuracy.
All sources accuracy needs to be checked.

It reminds me of my school days when answering questions about novels studied, for every spelling mistake a mark was deducted. Is the content of the response not more important than the spelling was my claim always to no avail.

I dunno, I thought I was pretty clear. Why twist my words?