133 replies to this topic

[jonny]

That may be innacurate statement because the Shaw Ocean Discovery centre is very popular destination and ther have "an octopus in a tank"

Is it locals who go to the Shaw Discovery Centre or do tourists flock to Sidney to check it out?

[Bingo]

I wonder how many Victorians actually visit or promote some of our long standing attractions, outside of the Museum or Butchart Gardens? Other attractions that are seen by some as part of our heritage, have disappeared.

We used to be known as the "City of Gardens", but that is not what it used to be now that we have the deer problem that nobody wants to address.

Yes we have some nice new buildings downtown, but that is not a huge draw for the tourists.

[aastra]

I mean is there anything different about miniature world of 1980 and miniature world of 2013?

The car show display is a fairly recent addition and it's very good. Miniature World is no tourist trap. But then neither was the Crystal Garden.

I won't miss the Undersea Gardens. If anything, I'm hoping this might open the door for a much better aquarium attraction in Victoria.

[HB]

Really? Care to post some data that backs up this claim?

Quickly looking at some data from Chemistry consulting, approximately 461,000 cruise ship passengers and 166,000 crew "visited" Victoria YTD August. Meaning these people were on ships that docked in Victoria. We have no idea how many actualy got off the ship, and I would guess many stayed on board.

There are over 4,500 hotel/motel rooms in Victoria. YTD occupancy to the end of August was 67%. Most rooms have two occupants. YTD to the end of August is 243 days. 243 days X 4,554 rooms X 2 occupants X 67% = 1,482,873 occupants.

Divide this by two if you like as I'm sure many visitors stay for more than one night, but I hardly see any data which indicates "The only reason this town is a tourist town is because of the cruise ships and that only makes it a tourist town from May till Sept."

"Like a toddler giving a weather forecast" a man once said.

Go have a look at Government St or the inner Harbour Tourist area right now .

Then go have a look in mid summer

You will notice a difference.

One doesnt not need to be a numerologist to figure out that if you removed those 600000 people that you mentioned from the equation that there would be no visible tourist activity in this city. Stores on Government would close permanently by sundown on the last day of a cruise ship to this city

The Hotel occupancy numbers do not cover tourists only they include business visits and locals and month to month renters at motels.

Throw all the fancy number you want out there but I stand by the fact that if the 600 000 on the cruise ships were not here any longer there would be a drastic change in the retail,eatery,whale watching shopping etc etc trade in this city and it would revert back to 1970s activity which was akinto a ghost town in mid summer


What the weather forecast??? Im curious

[HB]

Is it locals who go to the Shaw Discovery Centre or do tourists flock to Sidney to check it out?

Victoria is not the only tourist spot in the region.

Yes Sidney has a tourist trade and they have a Ferry terminal on its door step. It is a Vibrant Community.

The answer is Yes Tourists do flock to Sidney.

I suggest you go there one day and see for yoruself.

It is about a 20 minute drive north of Victoria on Hwy 17 just beyond the airport.

[Mike K.]

I take it you didn't read my post just above yours? People surveyed care about the setting, food, charm, walkavility and architecture. They don't care about paying to look at an octopus in a tank.

I did read your post, but losing local businesses that add to the culture and vibrancy of the city is not something that should be celebrated. The Undersea Gardens aside (due to its terrible conditions), the wax museum and Crystal Gardens were both wonderful in their own ways and it's too bad we've lost them.

People do not come here with the intent to sit on patios and eat or stare at vistas. They come here to experience a city that they have heard is a bustling little metropolis. It just so happens we have done a lot of things right that enable visitors to enjoy the urbanity of this region in many ways. Of course people love our setting, food, charm, walkability and architecture, but there is much more to any cosmopolitan area than those things alone.

The reason why the Undersea Gardens was so successful before it became completely mismanaged is because people wanted to see a giant live octopus and they wanted to walk below the water line just to see some fish doing their thing. Us locals might not care so much about this sort of experience but people from other parts of the world do and that's why zoos, aquariums and animal parks are so popular the world over.

[jonny]

Go have a look at Government St or the inner Harbour Tourist area right now .

Then go have a look in mid summer

You will notice a difference.

One doesnt not need to be a numerologist to figure out that if you removed those 600000 people that you mentioned from the equation that there would be no visible tourist activity in this city. Stores on Government would close permanently by sundown on the last day of a cruise ship to this city

The Hotel occupancy numbers do not cover tourists only they include business visits and locals and month to month renters at motels.

Throw all the fancy number you want out there but I stand by the fact that if the 600 000 on the cruise ships were not here any longer there would be a drastic change in the retail,eatery,whale watching shopping etc etc trade in this city and it would revert back to 1970s activity which was akinto a ghost town in mid summer


What the weather forecast??? Im curious

Tourism activity dies down in the fall??? NO WAY!1!!

Stand by whatever you like, but the numbers show that cruise ship visitors are in fact the minority. Sure, if the cruise ships stopped coming there would be a major impact. I never stated otherwise, and I don't know why you're off on that tangent now. Good for you for stating the obvious I suppose.

Sure, some of the hotel numbers represent short term residents, business people, etc., but the cruise ship numbers also have a large number of people who never even get off the ship, so there are mushy areas in the data in both respects.

However, it is not true that there would be no tourist activity if the frequency of cruise ship visitors declined. There was absolutely nothing complex about the numbers I published, which totally expose the ridiculousness of your claim that cruise ship activity is the only reason Victoria is considered a tourist town. That statement was stupid and not based on reality, which I have demonstrated.

I don't know what the sentence "What the weather forecast?" means.

[aastra]

Toronto's new aquarium is open now:
http://www.blogto.co...ess_to_toronto/

[James Bay walker]

Why do you think this is? We're a huge tourist city, why are all these tourist destinations closing?
?

Ask yourself: what's different?

I think the answer to loss of interest leading to closures lies in two directions:

1.) the internet (we've less need to travel to see wonders), and

2.) our city is slowly but surely becoming like other built-up cities and so is losing much of its character and uniqueness, imo

jbw

[aastra]

That statement was stupid and not based on reality, which I have demonstrated.

It's funny, until very recently the local media had many people believing that no cruise ships had ever visited Victoria prior to the early 2000s, and now in 2013 we've decided that the cruise ships = Victoria's tourism industry. Victoria might just be the most moderate city on the planet -- nothing that ever happens in Victoria is particularly extreme or excessive -- and yet Victorians love to paint everything in absurd extremes.

[jonny]

I did read your post, but losing local businesses that add to the culture and vibrancy of the city is not something that should be celebrated. The Undersea Gardens aside (due to its terrible conditions), the wax museum and Crystal Gardens were both wonderful in their own ways and it's too bad we've lost them.

People do not come here with the intent to sit on patios and eat or stare at vistas. They come here to experience a city that they have heard is a bustling little metropolis. It just so happens we have done a lot of things right that enable visitors to enjoy the urbanity of this region in many ways. Of course people love our setting, food, charm, walkability and architecture, but there is much more to any cosmopolitan area than those things alone.

Tourist attractions do not add to the culture or vibrancy of Victoria when they are complete embarrassments. The Undersea Gardens sucks. It may have been nice in the past, but right now it sucks. It doesn't make Victoria more "cosmopolitan."

Oh look, we are losing #54 out of 63 attractions in Victoria. Actually, it's the worst attraction in Victoria as those listed behind it haven't ever been ranked. Two out of five...must be a great asset to Victoria!

http://www.tripadvis...h_Columbia.html

The fact of the matter is that tourists don't note or visit the Undersea Gardens, and Victoria is still ranked the 17th best city in the world to visit.

[aastra]

our city is slowly but surely becoming like other built-up cities and so is losing much of its character and uniqueness, imo

Do you really feel this way? I feel like Victorians are finally coming to terms with the city's true character and uniqueness, and building on it.

[jonny]

and yet Victorians love to paint everything in absurd extremes.

They sure do.

There's nothing to do here. That building is too tall. It rains all the time. Downtown is dangerous. There are homeless people EVERYWHERE. All downtown businesses struggle.


I think Victoria is becoming a very cool city. I still think there's much progress to be made in terms of the urban environment, but I think many people are becoming less self conscious of Victoria as a city (i.e. OMG why don't you live in Vancouver???) and more aware of what it has to offer.

[HB]

Tourism activity dies down in the fall??? NO WAY!1!!

Stand by whatever you like, but the numbers show that cruise ship visitors are in fact the minority. Sure, if the cruise ships stopped coming there would be a major impact. I never stated otherwise, and I don't know why you're off on that tangent now.

I am off on that tangent because since 2001 I have been employed by the tourism industry in Victoria directly and indirectly. I have 4 years (2008-2012) employed by and working for Holland America and Princess dealing with local tour operators here and in Alaska and Yukon

I know the business from both sides I know how the game works

I am not a passive bystander throwing out random numbers


If you would like more of my credentials on the subject I may be able to pencil you in

Thank you for beaking off about my tangent the record has now been set straight


You may now consider yourself

OWNED

[Danma]

My head hurts reading this thread.

I agree that having the cruise ships definitely increases tourists, but isn't the only source. I agree that the Undersea Gardens are a long-treasured but generally out of date attraction. I think half the long-term residents of this city have completely lost perspective too.

Kelowna used to have Flintstone Land (can't remember actual name), tons of waterslides and kitschy attractions and not a hell of a lot else about 25 years ago. Since then, it's doubled in size, got rid of 80% of those kitschy things and now does quite well in tourism for outdoor adventures, wineries, and more active family fun. Sure, there's still lots of go-karting and mini-golf there, but it's grown up -- and has been developing its own identity through the process.

By the same token, Victoria has all of the essential building blocks (culture, talent, infrastructure, setting) and IMHO if it stops looking at itself through this nostalgic lens, I think it can create an identity of its own not cemented in the mid-20th-century, where it can attract visitors in the same way that attracts people to live here. Great food, great activities, the dolce vita of island life, etc. make this place worthwhile in the long term.

[aastra]

I appreciate the effort but jonny wins this one. The cruise ships are an important piece of the local tourism scene, no doubt, but they're only one piece. I'm a bit mystified that we're even debating this.

[gumgum]

You may now consider yourself

OWNED

Congratulations. You won the internet.

[jonny]

I know the business from both sides I know how the game works

I am not a passive bystander throwing out random numbers

If you would like more of my credentials on the subject I may be able to pencil you in

Thank you for beaking off about my tangent the record has now been set straight.

Nothing has been set straight. You have not demonstrated a single shred of evidence which backs-up your initial claim.

Since you are such an industry insider, can you please set the record straight in terms of the annual volume of hotel and cruise ship visitors. Since the numbers I got from Chemistry Consulting are "random", perhaps you have some better data you could share as an industry insider?

You may now consider yourself

OWNED

Ownded? Nah, I don't think so, especially when you have yet to provide a single piece of evidence.

I'm with aastra...I don't know what you're even trying to argue?

I have proven that the cruise ship industry is not "the only reason this town is a tourist town." You have come back with nothing other than you have some sort of employment in tourism.

[Hotel Mike]

I get to watch the Victoria Sightseeing buses, and the amphibious hippos go by all summer. I have seen them full many times when there are no cruise ships in port...and yes, I can see Ogden Point too.

[Mike K.]

Ironically for every tourist attraction we have lost we've gained a motorized attraction.