2245 replies to this topic

[Jackerbie]

^ Cassidy, I believe this is the news story you're talking about. https://www.saanichn...ptown-exchange/

 

No idea what the context of this image is, but it is from a 2012 presentation by BC Transit to Victoria and Saanich Councils. That presentation is archived here: https://bctransit.co...s/1403640685819

 

[bluefox]

A bus-only transit crossing has been confirmed at Carey Road.

So... in other words... the interchange really is pushing the traffic problem a mile closer to downtown and not actually solving congestion issues... as expected.

[Cassidy]

Roads aren't the solution to the Crawl, rapid transit is.

All this current construction is going to do is push driving times back to what they were 15 or 20 years ago (if we're lucky).

 

As for traffic between Mayfair Mall and Tillicum Road, that kind of transition zone from a downtown core to a highway pretty much has to be designed and engineered from scratch in order for traffic not to be backing up further and further into town.

We're working with what we've got, and in effect we're making things worse for cars and drivers by taking lanes away for buses and bikes ... at least in the transition zone that's currently a parking lot from about 3:00pm to around 6:00pm.

 

As the entire project begins to take shape, I tend to believe that driving times between the downtown core and the Westshore will be reduced ... but not reduced such that the moniker of "Colwood Crawl" will disappear from our local conversations anytime soon.

[Mike K.]

Of course roads are the solution. Too few people want to or can use transit and that won’t change with or without a billion dollar train.

And when you’ve got roads that are too congested from day one obviously the capacity was never adequate to begin with.

[Cats4Hire]

So... in other words... the interchange really is pushing the traffic problem a mile closer to downtown and not actually solving congestion issues... as expected.

unless they add a bunch of routes all that would be using this is the 30/31 meaning at most this light would change once every ten minutes and probably last less than a minute.

[Jason-L]

unless they add a bunch of routes all that would be using this is the 30/31 meaning at most this light would change once every ten minutes and probably last less than a minute.

So for 6 minutes of every hour, traffic flow is interrupted, leading to hundreds of cars rippling back down Douglas and up to Tillcum being stopped, and ... well, pretty much accomplishing the continued plan for entry into and out of Victoria being made more difficult.

Pretty sure at this point, the city just wants to capture around 100,000 people and have them forced to exist only inside the confines of the city.

[Cassidy]

Of course roads are the solution. Too few people want to or can use transit and that won’t change with or without a billion dollar train.

And when you’ve got roads that are too congested from day one obviously the capacity was never adequate to begin with.

I didn't say "transit" ... I said "rapid transit".

 

You know ... like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal - cities that take transit seriously rather than attempting to force residents onto bicycles or city buses.

 

Roads most definitely are not the solution to issues like the Crawl.

[Cats4Hire]

So for 6 minutes of every hour, traffic flow is interrupted, leading to hundreds of cars rippling back down Douglas and up to Tillcum being stopped, and ... well, pretty much accomplishing the continued plan for entry into and out of Victoria being made more difficult.

Pretty sure at this point, the city just wants to capture around 100,000 people and have them forced to exist only inside the confines of the city.

Honestly, unless they are planning to do something about Tillicum too I really don't see this light making anything worse

[jonny]

You know ... like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal - cities that take transit seriously rather than attempting to force residents onto bicycles or city buses.

 

Vancouver has perhaps the worst traffic in North America, but carry on. 

[Cassidy]

Vancouver has perhaps the worst traffic in North America, but carry on. 

Sheeesh ... I'm not talking about "traffic" ... I'm talking about rapid transit!

 

Rapid transit makes "travel lives" of the people who choose to take it far better ... it's not designed to make the car and drivers lives better!

 

Rapid transit between downtown COV and the Westshore would take maybe 10 minutes, and the people who chose to take it would be an hour to an hour and a half ahead of those who chose to try the same route in their cars.

 

I've lived in Vancouver on multiple ocasions, and like Victoria, if you try to take - say ..... Granville Street at rush hour, you're going to be stuck in a parking lot. However if you take Granville Street at 10:00pm at night, you'll zip from downtown out to the airport in 25 minutes.

My point though is ... if you do the same trip on the Skytrain ... it only takes 25 minutes WHENEVER you choose to go - because it's rapid transit!

[lanforod]

Vancouver has perhaps the worst traffic in North America, but carry on. 

 

It's up there, but Mexico City, Los Angeles and likely San Francisco are all worse.

[Coreyburger]

Vancouver has perhaps the worst traffic in North America, but carry on. 

 

That is a garbage stat developed with a garbage methodology - measuring the % difference between free flow and congested. This means that cities with shorter commutes and higher peak congestion will get higher rankings, while a city with all day congestion will get a lower ranking.

[jonny]

That is a garbage stat developed with a garbage methodology - measuring the % difference between free flow and congested. This means that cities with shorter commutes and higher peak congestion will get higher rankings, while a city with all day congestion will get a lower ranking.

 

I said perhaps. I never purported to be presenting any stats, garbage or otherwise.

 

It's up there, but Mexico City, Los Angeles and likely San Francisco are all worse.

 

I doubt it's the worst, but it's pretty bad. There is no doubt traffic in Vancouver is bad, despite the city, province and country investing billions into taking rapid transit seriously, as Cassidy put it.

 

It's been a long time since I got stuck in the Colwood crawl, but it surely pales in comparison to the commutes of the average Greater Vancouverite coming into the city from Delta or Langley. The Colwood Crawl is more or less an average Lions Gate bridge or Massey Tunnel crossing.

 

That is to say, for a litany of reasons, Greater Victoria is nowhere near the point of investing in some sort of rapid transit line. We're simply too small and our congestion issues are really not that bad [the much more pressing regional transportation issue is the Malahat, IMO].

[Coreyburger]

I doubt it's the worst, but it's pretty bad. There is no doubt traffic in Vancouver is bad, despite the city, province and country investing billions into taking rapid transit seriously, as Cassidy put it.

 

Here is a fun stat: Developers in Vancouver are currently redeveloping multiple private parking garages since the introduction of Canada Line. Vehicles entering the downtown are at 1960s levels, while people entering the downtown is soaring.  Rapid transit (and bike lanes and better land use) work.

[Mattjvd]

I said perhaps. I never purported to be presenting any stats, garbage or otherwise.

 

 

I doubt it's the worst, but it's pretty bad. There is no doubt traffic in Vancouver is bad, despite the city, province and country investing billions into taking rapid transit seriously, as Cassidy put it.

 

It's been a long time since I got stuck in the Colwood crawl, but it surely pales in comparison to the commutes of the average Greater Vancouverite coming into the city from Delta or Langley. The Colwood Crawl is more or less an average Lions Gate bridge or Massey Tunnel crossing.

 

That is to say, for a litany of reasons, Greater Victoria is nowhere near the point of investing in some sort of rapid transit line. We're simply too small and our congestion issues are really not that bad [the much more pressing regional transportation issue is the Malahat, IMO].

Vancouver is horrible at rush hour for sure. It would be a whole lot worse if it wasn't for its rapid transit though, those trains are packed, shoulder-to-shoulder, and running every 5 minutes during commuting hours.

 

Thankfully Vancouver has pretty light congestion at off-peak hours (mostly when I'm there). It was a shock to me to be sitting in gridlock on a 5 lane wide highway on a Sunday in LA!

[sdwright.vic]

That is a garbage stat developed with a garbage methodology - measuring the % difference between free flow and congested. This means that cities with shorter commutes and higher peak congestion will get higher rankings, while a city with all day congestion will get a lower ranking.

I don't think he quoted a stat, maybe just an expression of opinion (IMHO).

[Coreyburger]

I don't think he quoted a stat, maybe just an expression of opinion (IMHO).

 

Here is a decent article talking about the TomTom stat forms the basis of the "most congested city" and two good takedowns of it

https://www.cbc.ca/n...kings-1.3995206

[Mike K.]

Victoria could build an amazing solution to the Colwood Crawl for $350 million. No need to invest a billion into a transit line that will have a trickle of riders from 930AM-2PM and 7PM-midnight. BC Transit can’t even fill a once-every-20-minutes single floor 50 on Tuesday evenings.

[sdwright.vic]

Here is a decent article talking about the TomTom stat forms the basis of the "most congested city" and two good takedowns of it
https://www.cbc.ca/n...kings-1.3995206

Once again. He said "perhaps". Not according to x then z and link to supporting linkage.

You endear yourself to none with your sometime quick protection of your dogma.

[PraiseKek]

I didn't say "transit" ... I said "rapid transit".

 

You know ... like Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal - cities that take transit seriously rather than attempting to force residents onto bicycles or city buses.

 

Roads most definitely are not the solution to issues like the Crawl.

Roads are the solution and also, are exactly what everyone wants.