387 replies to this topic

[jonny]

So when peak oil hits in January and there are no carrots or turnips to pick in this newly deforested land we have turned into farmland, then what the hell are we going to do?

[VicHockeyFan]

Yeah, I know that realistic planning for disasters is scary. I know that climate change and peak oil seems like something we will magically "solve" and we will be able to rely on just-on-time delivery of food from around the globe forever. In your magical happy-land where a major disaster affects only Vancouver Island but leaves the entire Salish Sea untouched and available to assist we can certainly expect aerial drones to drop pizza and beer to every person who needs it.

 

Meanwhile, taking steps to encourage some measure of self-sufficiency (what we now call "food security") are reasonable and prudent for more than simply reasons of preparedness. They can increase healthy outcomes and provide local jobs which benefits our economy.

 

Tedward, if you want to prepare, than by all means, full your boots, build yourself a underground storage bunker with rations for 24 months.  Group together with your neighbours and buy a barge.

 

But don't ask me to put up my tax dollars for the preparations.

[rjag]

Care to point to any disaster in the world, since the beginning of mankind, that has affected an area even remotely close to the size of this Island?

 

I have absolutely no interest in "preparing" for an event that will not only never take place in our lifetimes, but not in our grandkid's kid's lifetimes.

 

Our airforce has over a dozen C-130 planes, based in Ontario.  If just one of those landed every hour on the Island, that would have enough food for us all.  But well before that is even set up, entrepreneurs would have food coming here by many other means.

 

This is such a non-issue.

 

While you belittle some of the comments around this topic I ask you to have a look at the impact of the 2004 Tsunami in Indonesia. Food was only one small part of the equation, sanitation took this to a whole new level and that is to me the elephant in the room as our below ground systems, water, sewage and storm drains are really antiquated.

 

We can have a few days of food and drinking water but if even 25% of our water and sewage systems are affected that could take years to fix.

 

Its great having schools seismically upgraded but the same urgency should be placed on our water and sewage and its not.

 

And as for the dozen planes, chances are they will be staging our of Alberta or at the best Kamloops and they will have to have prepositioned supplies instantly available to move....which we don't.

 

I would also suggest you take a look at http://www.drj.com/ and browse some of the articles

Edited by rjag, 18 November 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Bingo]

If we ever need to worry about food supply... long after we have exterminated the deer population,

we get back to the land and put in our own food supply right in our back yard, plant a GIMBY

 

Gardens In My Back Yard

 

 

VICTORY GARDENS

Victory gardens, also called war gardens or food gardens for defense, were vegetable, fruit, and herb gardens planted at private residences and public parks in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and Germany^[1] during World War I and World War II.

They were used along with food stamps to reduce pressure on the public food supply.

Around one-third of the vegetables produced by the United States came from victory gardens.^[2]

Besides indirectly aiding the war effort, these gardens were also considered a civil "morale booster" in that gardeners could feel empowered by their contribution of labor and rewarded by the produce grown.

This made victory gardens a part of daily life on the home front.

http://en.wikipedia..../Victory_garden

 

[Mike K.]

Like I was saying, in a country that has everything in abundance and the resources to ensure a seagull with a broken leg gets medical attention food security is such a non issue. And when/if it does become an issue we'll all be up the creek without paddles anyway.

I'll never forget the day I came back to Victoria after having spent six weeks in South Africa. Rampant murder, uncontrollable crime, intense poverty, orphaned children begging on the streets, you name it, it was a daily part of life. First day back home the TC's front page features an injured bird and describes how the community rallied to nurse it back to health. Unreal.

[VicHockeyFan]

While you belittle some of the comments around this topic I ask you to have a look at the impact of the 2004 Tsunami in Indonesia. Food was only one small part of the equation, sanitation took this to a whole new level and that is to me the elephant in the room as our below ground systems, water, sewage and storm drains are really antiquated.

 

We can have a few days of food and drinking water but if even 25% of our water and sewage systems are affected that could take years to fix.

I would also suggest you take a look at http://www.drj.com/ and browse some of the articles

 

If we have an earthquake large enough to seriously damage our water mains and sewage systems in many different points, to the point that it'll take years to repair them... then we will also have thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of homes that are not safe for occupancy, basically the whole area will be a write-off that will not likely recover for 50 years.

 

I'm not interested in planning for that, it can't be done.

[pherthyl]

If we have an earthquake large enough to seriously damage our water mains and sewage systems in many different points, to the point that it'll take years to repair them... then we will also have thousands of deaths, tens of thousands of homes that are not safe for occupancy, basically the whole area will be a write-off that will not likely recover for 50 years.

 

I'm not interested in planning for that, it can't be done.

 

I agree with you on the pointless nature of food security talk, but definitely don't agree that it's pointless to prepare for a large earthquake.  A large quake is coming with almost 100% certainty.  It might be tomorrow or in 100 years but it's coming.  Yes there will be many deaths but that doesn't mean we can't prepare for it.    We already have a great model of what will happen in the aftermath with Christchurch.

 

The preparation consists of seismic construction and retrofits, and having sufficient emergency food/water reserves on hand.  That's not really that difficult.

Edited by pherthyl, 18 November 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[jonny]

The preparation consists of seismic construction and retrofits, and having sufficient emergency food/water reserves on hand.  That's not really that difficult.

We're doing this already, aren't we?

[Greg]

Yeah, I know that realistic planning for disasters is scary. I know that climate change and peak oil seems like something we will magically "solve" and we will be able to rely on just-on-time delivery of food from around the globe forever. In your magical happy-land where a major disaster affects only Vancouver Island but leaves the entire Salish Sea untouched and available to assist we can certainly expect aerial drones to drop pizza and beer to every person who needs it.

 

There's a big space between being too scared to perform realistic disaster planning and the kind of chicken-little Malthusian nonsense that people like Paul Ehrlich have been spewing for decades despite being repeatedly and overwhelmingly disproven. We're not going to lose the ability to transport food in any scenario short of the kind of catastrophe that would be far beyond the scope of local farmers to solve.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, taking steps to encourage some measure of self-sufficiency (what we now call "food security") are reasonable and prudent for more than simply reasons of preparedness. They can increase healthy outcomes and provide local jobs which benefits our economy.

 

Specialization and division of labor exist for a reason and have led to the very wealth that gives people the time to sit around on the internet and make up new things to worry about. This desire to return to some simple agrarian lifestyle is nice fodder for folk songs, but it counter-indicated for useful social planning. I have no more desire to grow my own food, or have my food grown by my neighbor than I do to weave my own cotton for my clothes or have my shoes cobbled locally by someone in the community. I'm perfectly happy living in the modern world. Having trading partners and economic co-dependence with the rest of the planet is desirable - it leads to efficiencies, creates wealth, and makes the world smaller and less tribal.

[Sparky]

Exactly, there was no reason that council could have passed a motion to support the family and indicate that they would follow through after the ALR.....there was more to this than we know in regards to Saanich decision to obfuscate the matter....methinks this was part of the downfall of Leonard

 

Here is a wonderful can of worms for you.

 

Saanich Council votes to a one time variance to change the status quo'   http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/saanich-councillor-calls-for-new-approach-in-cattle-feedlot-dispute-1.1931589

 

........and three days later Frank Leonard assumes the chair position of the ALR.   http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/former-saanich-mayor-will-head-b-c-s-agricultural-land-commission-1.1936301

 

.....I wonder what's next?

[VicHockeyFan]

Ya I thought that was pretty ironic.

Now, Leonard is only there for 5 months, not sure if the application is coming that fast. Saanich re zoning has to come first.

[Jill]

^Leonard's appointment is for three years. The incumbent was "pushed out" five months before the end of term to make way for Leonard.

[VicHockeyFan]

Oh I see now.
 

The B.C. government appointed former Saanich mayor Frank Leonard as chair and interim CEO of the Agricultural Land Commission on Thursday.

Current board chair and CEO Richard Bullock was surprised at his dismissal. He’ll receive a severance consistent with the rest of his contract, a five-year term that ends in November.

Leonard will hold combined duties as the board chair and CEO for a period of five months while he leads the search for a new CEO. He will continue as the chair for a three year term.

 

http://www.saanichne...tml?mobile=true



Well that's very interesting....

[VicHockeyFan]

What exactly is the process for removal of property from the ALR?

[VicHockeyFan]

Jeepers read that article. Apparently some Britsh firms want to buy BC farms and turn th back to forest to get carbon credits.

That could have support for and against I guess.

Food security types would be against, and global warming types ought to be for it. Of course theses are the same people though.

[rjag]

Wonder if he will show up more often for this than he did for the CRD sewage meetings!
Conspiracy theorist hat on but there is some payback taking place

[VicHockeyFan]

^ so three days ago the Albergs said they would immediately wind down the cow operation in light of the council decision.

Wonder if today that's still the plan.

It's got the potential to be farm for a long time if Leonard takes a strong stance against removal of any property.

Also of interest in that article is the NDP MLA taking a swing at Leonard.

[dasmo]

Jeepers read that article. Apparently some Britsh firms want to buy BC farms and turn th back to forest to get carbon credits.

That could have support for and against I guess.

Food security types would be against, and global warming types ought to be for it. Of course theses are the same people though.

Forests will hide the grow ops better. Sheesh. There needs to be some bylaws not allowing cinderblock boxes surrounded by chain link and lite up 24-7 on ALR property because there are more to come....

[Mike K.]

Central Saanich nkw has a moratorium in place on legal grow-ops. They'll review the situation later in the year but council stated in a report that they want to avoid being caught off guard by an application. Hmm.

[VicHockeyFan]

The Albergs will remove their cows next week, in a show of good faith.