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The Agricultural Land Reserver (alr), Food Security - And Similar Topics


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#161 lanforod

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 11:07 PM

Is this land actually in the ALR, because it looks like a Garry Oak meadow?

 

Aren't those trees protected under the Tree Preservation Bylaw?

The tree bylaw is different when applied to farmland, as I recall.

 

I don't know too much of the history of this dispute, but either way, if that land is not being used effectively, this is what it should boil down to: If the land is an eyesore and causing grief for neighbours due to how the owner is using it, the law should be able to do something about that, including changing zoning and removing from ALR if more gentle pursuasion to abide by the rules is ignored.



#162 sebberry

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 11:13 PM

The tree bylaw is different when applied to farmland, as I recall.

 

I don't know too much of the history of this dispute

 

http://www.timescolo...ghbours-1.97188


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#163 North Shore

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 01:56 AM

The tree bylaw is different when applied to farmland, as I recall.
 
I don't know too much of the history of this dispute, but either way, if that land is not being used effectively, this is what it should boil down to: If the land is an eyesore and causing grief for neighbours due to how the owner is using it, the law should be able to do something about that, including changing zoning and removing from ALR if more gentle pursuasion to abide by the rules is ignored.


IIRC, from a CBC radio interview several months back, the landowner had applied several times to get the land out of the ALR, as it is really unsuitable for anything other than grazing land. Each time he was met with community opposition, either from neighbors, who wanted their little slice of green belt, or from Saanich, who were unhappy with something else (density? I can't remember...) and so, as a large Fu$k You to both groups, he's gone ahead with the feedlot, as it is a permitted usage of the land...
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#164 North Shore

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 01:58 AM

Ah, I stand corrected, as Sebberry has beaten me to the punch...
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#165 lanforod

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:18 AM

 

Thanks for that. Why the heck can't Saanich council just pass a motion to rezone to whatever automatically if the land is removed from the ALR...



#166 rjag

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:28 AM

Thanks for that. Why the heck can't Saanich council just pass a motion to rezone to whatever automatically if the land is removed from the ALR...

 

Exactly, there was no reason that council could have passed a motion to support the family and indicate that they would follow through after the ALR.....there was more to this than we know in regards to Saanich decision to obfuscate the matter....methinks this was part of the downfall of Leonard



#167 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 08:29 AM

It'll be interesting to see if Atwell can get this changed.  I suspect that he might not have as much support around the table as Leonard did.


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#168 tedward

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 02:39 PM

If ferries topped for 3 weeks you can bet every spare Air Canada plane would be diverted to bring food here, for the right price.

 

Wow, you guys are really missing the point. When people talk about ferries stopping it is not because of a strike or something They are talking about what would happen in a major earthquake or other disaster that prevented ANY transportation of food long distances.

 


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#169 sebberry

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 02:49 PM

Wow, you guys are really missing the point. When people talk about ferries stopping it is not because of a strike or something They are talking about what would happen in a major earthquake or other disaster that prevented ANY transportation of food long distances.

 

 

Most people have more than 3 days worth of food in their pantry.  Granted much of it would need to be cooked which might not be possible if gas and electricity has been knocked out. 

 

Considering how much land and other resources we'd need to maintain a 14 day supply of emergency food that's ready at a moment's notice, you'd be better off hitting up this section of Costco's website


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#170 Mike K.

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 02:58 PM

Wow, you guys are really missing the point. When people talk about ferries stopping it is not because of a strike or something They are talking about what would happen in a major earthquake or other disaster that prevented ANY transportation of food long distances.

 

 

We're not a third world banana republic. The entire continent would rally to supply Vancouver Island with everything it needed in the event of a major disaster.


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#171 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 03:04 PM

Wow, you guys are really missing the point. When people talk about ferries stopping it is not because of a strike or something They are talking about what would happen in a major earthquake or other disaster that prevented ANY transportation of food long distances.

 

 

Other than nuclear war, there is no disaster that will prevent food deliveries.  Period.

 

This Island has a dozen ferry terminals, almost all of them not in any danger from a tidal wave.  Plus we have multiple barge landings.  We have another dozen airports.  

 

There will be temporary price hikes, but food will come in, no problem.


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#172 jonny

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 03:08 PM

We're not a third world banana republic. The entire continent would rally to supply Vancouver Island with everything it needed in the event of a major disaster.

 

In the event of some nuclear holocaust that wipes out North America, a reliable long-term food supply is an entirely moot point.

 

An earthquake? We'd have airlifted food and water from wherever (Vancouver? Calgary? USA?) within hours. How much food could you fit on a few barges parked at Ogden Point or Nanaimo Harbour?

 

How many thousands of acres of forests would we have to cut down to create enough arable farmland to be even 50% self-sufficient? There are reasons some areas are agrarian and others have forestry, fishing, mining, etc.


Edited by jonny, 17 November 2014 - 03:08 PM.


#173 Mike K.

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 03:19 PM

Yeah, this whole food security debate is lame, lame, lame and just plays on people's emotional vulnerability.

 

When you live in a country like Canada that affords you with the freedoms to do whatever the hell you want you start looking for problems, and food security is a golden ticket that appeals to people brought up in a wealthy society that has more bored yet overly stimulated teenagers per-capita than the rest of the world combined.


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#174 sebberry

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 03:23 PM

Problem solved:

 

fridge-lock-400.jpg


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#175 Jason-L

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 08:48 AM

The worry about food security is tied up in the worry about fossil fuels.  Note that nearly every solution to us having enough food involves it being transported by something reliant on petroleum products at some point in the delivery chain.  If you assume we only have a few years of oil left to burn, then you do need to worry about whether or not you can feed people with only the food your serfs can grow locally.  That's the root of the fear.



#176 lanforod

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:24 AM

The worry about food security is tied up in the worry about fossil fuels.  Note that nearly every solution to us having enough food involves it being transported by something reliant on petroleum products at some point in the delivery chain.  If you assume we only have a few years of oil left to burn, then you do need to worry about whether or not you can feed people with only the food your serfs can grow locally.  That's the root of the fear.

The problem is we'd need to do some serious clear cutting of land on the island to be food secure on the island alone. How is that environmentally friendly?



#177 tedward

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:26 AM

Yeah, I know that realistic planning for disasters is scary. I know that climate change and peak oil seems like something we will magically "solve" and we will be able to rely on just-on-time delivery of food from around the globe forever. In your magical happy-land where a major disaster affects only Vancouver Island but leaves the entire Salish Sea untouched and available to assist we can certainly expect aerial drones to drop pizza and beer to every person who needs it.

 

Meanwhile, taking steps to encourage some measure of self-sufficiency (what we now call "food security") are reasonable and prudent for more than simply reasons of preparedness. They can increase healthy outcomes and provide local jobs which benefits our economy.


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#178 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:29 AM

The worry about food security is tied up in the worry about fossil fuels.  Note that nearly every solution to us having enough food involves it being transported by something reliant on petroleum products at some point in the delivery chain.  If you assume we only have a few years of oil left to burn, then you do need to worry about whether or not you can feed people with only the food your serfs can grow locally.  That's the root of the fear.

 

I hope you are joking.

 

Forbes says:

 

http://www.forbes.co...economical-end/

 

Probably in excess of 50 years before oil production drops below half what is currently. Counting natural gas in total hydrocarbons, probably 90 to 140 years before total hydrocarbon use drops to below half what it is currently. It is likely that this will be enough time to transition to renewables, nuclear, and biomass, with some oil still used for long distance transportation.

 

 


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#179 Szeven

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:32 AM

 

Meanwhile, taking steps to encourage some measure of self-sufficiency (what we now call "food security") are reasonable and prudent for more than simply reasons of preparedness. They can increase healthy outcomes and provide local jobs which benefits our economy.

 

Can you give some examples of steps?

 

My example would be increasing industrial farming which would be done more expensively than where it is done now, increasing food costs and hurting the economy.



#180 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:32 AM

Yeah, I know that realistic planning for disasters is scary. I know that climate change and peak oil seems like something we will magically "solve" and we will be able to rely on just-on-time delivery of food from around the globe forever. In your magical happy-land where a major disaster affects only Vancouver Island but leaves the entire Salish Sea untouched and available to assist we can certainly expect aerial drones to drop pizza and beer to every person who needs it.

 

Care to point to any disaster in the world, since the beginning of mankind, that has affected an area even remotely close to the size of this Island?

 

I have absolutely no interest in "preparing" for an event that will not only never take place in our lifetimes, but not in our grandkid's kid's lifetimes.

 

Our airforce has over a dozen C-130 planes, based in Ontario.  If just one of those landed every hour on the Island, that would have enough food for us all.  But well before that is even set up, entrepreneurs would have food coming here by many other means.

 

This is such a non-issue.


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