308 replies to this topic

[amor de cosmos]

they're tomorrow, in case anyone forgot

[phx]

I may go on the "Valley or Corridor" walk, depending on the weather.

[amor de cosmos]

Pedestrians avoid Shelbourne Street, citizens’ poll finds
Published: May 30, 2011 12:00 PM
Updated: May 30, 2011 3:17 PM

“I avoid it.” That was the recurrent answer when people in the Shelbourne Valley were asked about their walking habits along the busy main street.

Narrow, broken, steep and flooded sidewalks, dangerous crossings, a lack of buffer from the roadway, and inconvenient or impossible manoeuvring for people with walkers and wheelchairs are just some of the reasons Shelbourne needs to be redone.

These are the findings from a citizen-led advisory group that released a report on the problems hindering walkability in their neighbourhood.

“We found a word very much associated with Shelbourne Street is ‘avoid.’ ‘Oh Shelbourne? I avoid it. I would never ride my bike there. It’s a horrible place to walk,’” said Jean Newton, who along with her husband Tom and a few others helped release the Shelbourne Valley Walkability Report. “But at the same time they told us they want more of a community feeling. And a lot of them make reference to places like Cook Street and Oak Bay Village, where people like to go on foot.”

http://www.bclocalne.../122832549.html

there's got to be some ideas here
http://books.google....id=BoFLR2RkOSUC

[phx]

I often walk along Shelbourne and find those complaints to be ridiculous.

[D.L.]

Who are you to say that someone's complaint is ridiculous?

[rjag]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and it may differ from yours. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with commenting on it or disagreeing with it either.

I gotta say the stretch between Hillside and MacKenzie is downright ugly and pretty dangerous if you ride a bike. The options to change that are pretty limited and really, why should they. Why not focus on changes on roads that can be changed to accomodate folks. i.e. make Cedar Hill more pedestrian and bike friendly and leave Shelbourne alone. The sheer cost to fit a square peg in a round hole is ridiculous.

[Lover Fighter]

As a young person who lives half a block away from this stretch of Shelbourne, I must agree that the sidewalk conditions are pretty grim. The article does a good job of explaining some of the issues and why nothing has been done. It is physically impossible for a mobility scooter or wheelchair to navigate along the west side of Shelbourne between North Dairy and Pear:

[phx]

I haven't checked out all the sidewalks along Shelbourne, though the ones in my area are good. I suppose I'm not surprised to learn there may be some parts in need of repair, and the municipality should get on that. But the "advisory group" is exaggerating those few problems.

Are they expecting an arterial street to be like a quiet side-street?

Anyway, my neighbourhood has a "walk score" of 72 - very walkable. That's quite good for a suburban area.

[Bingo]

As a young person who lives half a block away from this stretch of Shelbourne, I must agree that the sidewalk conditions are pretty grim. The article does a good job of explaining some of the issues and why nothing has been done. It is physically impossible for a mobility scooter or wheelchair to navigate along the west side of Shelbourne between North Dairy and Pear:

There are many roads in the area that are worst than this section, as they have NO sidewalks at all. The East side of Shelbourne is fine and there are crosswalks every few blocks to get you over to that side.

[arfenarf]

There are many roads in the area that are worst than this section, as they have NO sidewalks at all. The East side of Shelbourne is fine and there are crosswalks every few blocks to get you over to that side.

But, really. on a major artery like this, to have crummy pedestrian environment like that on either side is pretty poor.

Shelbourne between Hillside and Feltham is the only road in the Victoria/Oak Bay/SE Saanich area that my teens are not, under any circumstances, allowed to cycle on, at pain of being grounded for life. The problem is that it's the only flat route north and south on that side of town: Cedar Hill and Richmond both roll quite a bit, enough to make them unattractive for casual and commuting use.

I don't know what the answer is. I hope these sessions help us find a balance between all the different uses for that throughway.

[Bingo]

But, really. on a major artery like this, to have crummy pedestrian environment like that on either side is pretty poor.

Shelbourne used to be one lane each way and lined with trees from Bay St to Mt Doug Park.

Maybe Shelbourne needs to return to that time by reducing the number of vehicle lanes and instaling bike lanes, wider sidewalks and planters down the center of the road.

[sebberry]

Shelbourne used to be one lane each way and lined with trees from Bay St to Mt Doug Park.

Maybe Shelbourne needs to return to that time by reducing the number of vehicle lanes and instaling bike lanes, wider sidewalks and planters down the center of the road.

Sounds good to me, as long as Richmond and Cedar Hill both get widened in the process

[Lover Fighter]

There are many roads in the area that are worst than this section, as they have NO sidewalks at all. The East side of Shelbourne is fine and there are crosswalks every few blocks to get you over to that side.

I'm sorry but I can't seriously believe that you're arguing that the sidewalks here are fine. There are many terrible sidewalks in the area, and even more places where they are non-existent (including my street). But Shelbourne is the major north-south corridor in the area. The lanes are extremely narrow and traffic can reach 70km/hr on the stretches between lights. Not comfortable for the less sure-footed to walk anywhere along this route. Poor sidewalks along the collector and feeder streets is not really an issue here.

The only road in this neck of the woods that I'd argue needs sidewalk infrastructure more is the south side of Lansdowne between Richmond and Foul Bay.

[Lover Fighter]

But, really. on a major artery like this, to have crummy pedestrian environment like that on either side is pretty poor.

Shelbourne between Hillside and Feltham is the only road in the Victoria/Oak Bay/SE Saanich area that my teens are not, under any circumstances, allowed to cycle on, at pain of being grounded for life. The problem is that it's the only flat route north and south on that side of town: Cedar Hill and Richmond both roll quite a bit, enough to make them unattractive for casual and commuting use.

I don't know what the answer is. I hope these sessions help us find a balance between all the different uses for that throughway.

Exactly. I'd argue that the biggest challenge to improving Shelbourne is the narrow road right-of-way along the route. Ideally, there would be one lane of traffic each way, with centre left turn lanes and bike lanes. This would help traffic flow better compared to the current weaving between cyclists in the right lane and people turning left from the left lane. Sidewalks wouldn't even need to be further separated from the road if a bike lane 'buffer' from traffic offered a sense of safety to pedestrians.

[Bingo]

The Saanich Cycling Festival will be using Shelbourne Street on Sunday April 22nd, for the Big Family Bike Ride

see details and map;

http://www.saanichcyclingfestival.ca/

http://www.saanichcy...id=53&Itemid=58

[Bingo]

The Shelbourne Street Corridor - Action Plan online Open House

http://www.saanich.c..._open_house.pdf

[G-Man]

Wow that was depressing. The only conclusion I come to is the city is saying look there is plenty of unused density out there. Land owners get building!

[Bob Fugger]

At least they've backed away from their silly idea of reducing Shelbourne to one lane of traffic in each direction.

[jklymak]

^ I think one lane in each direction would be great. People also thought it would be the apocalypse on Fort when they did it, yet traffic still seems to move smoothly.

South of Hillside, Shelbourne is only 1 lane, and it doesn't seem to cause problems. Unless everyone is feeding in off of Hillside, I don't see what the problem is.

[Mike K.]

The City of Victoria's recent removal of an eastward lane on Bay Street between Bridge Street and Douglas Street causes backups right up to the Ellice Bridge now. Before traffic became heavy only near John Street through to Government.

During peak driving periods Bay is now backed up in both directions between Government and the bridge. I would say this was a very poor move by the City.