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General Heritage Discussion


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#481 Jackerbie

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 12:32 PM

^ But NP that last one says "colonial" so it's a bad example


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#482 Rob Randall

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 12:34 PM

I'm sure this is the building that inspired the huge arched windows in the initial 601 Herald design. I mean, put yourself in the shoes of the architect. What the hell are you supposed to do? I'd defenestrate myself.

 

Capture.JPG


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"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#483 Mike K.

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 02:18 PM

Yup, that’s exactly the building that comes to mind when viewing that rendering for 601.

Come to think of it, so do the buildings kitty corner from each other on Government at Broughton (southeast and northwest corners) in Ground Zero of what the feds now call a historic place, for God’s sake. I recall back when the city complained about the first design for 601 how utterly insane the criticisms were. I mean, several of our most notable heritage buildings were the inspiration and yet...

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#484 Bingo

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:58 PM

I'm sure this is the building that inspired the huge arched windows in the initial 601 Herald design. I mean, put yourself in the shoes of the architect. What the hell are you supposed to do? I'd defenestrate myself.

 

The Chintz & Company building just across the street has the same arched windows and might have been the inspiration, and probably built by the same bricklayers.



#485 aastra

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:22 PM

I assumed the arched windows were a reference to the long lost building that used to be right across the street from 601 Herald. Regardless of the inspiration, the claim that such windows didn't belong in the neighbourhood was self-evidently absurd.

 

e-01559_141.jpg


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#486 Mike K.

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:24 PM

I heard the building 601 Herald replaced had arched windows.


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#487 aastra

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 05:51 PM

Can you tell me who told you that? I want to go beat the living crap out of him.

 

No, seriously, maybe it's true. But by 1947 it was a service station (note the big arched windows right across the street):
http://vintageairpho...com/bo-47-1450/



#488 aastra

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 06:35 PM

 

I'd defenestrate myself.

 

Come on. This is supposed to be a family board.

 

The variation in the roof lines is another essential ingredient. The old town is all about variation and differentiation and unique details... and yet people will call for bland uniformity and claim that they're defending the old town's integrity when they're doing it.

 

post-26-0-84268100-1544733235.jpg



#489 Nparker

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:40 PM

Just when I thought the one bright spot in last October's civic election was that Pam Madoff's dated and confusing notions of what constitutes heritage preservation were done, she decides to stick her nose in again.

...“Of late there have been many signs that the heritage program in Old Town is slipping out of balance,” says an open letter to Victoria councillors signed by more than 50 Greater Victorians, including heritage planners, architects, former politicians, neighbourhood advocates and academics...Proposals such as the eight-storey condominium on the Northern Junk site near the Johnson Street Bridge and the Customs House development now underway have heightened concerns over what constitutes heritage preservation, Madoff said...

https://www.timescol...oria-1.23594801

It seems to me the developer of the Northern Junk proposal(s) has bent over backwards to meet CoV heritage guidelines and after nearly a decade is still unable to satisfy local advocates. As for the Customs House project, I'd love to know how Ms. Madoff (et al) would have financed its restoration. Has it been forgotten that half of that structure dated back only to the 1950s? Should that portion have remained untouched as well?



#490 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:11 PM

the letter is signed by 50 people but the article only mentions Madoff. why the shoddy reporting?




signed by more than 50 Greater Victorians, including heritage planners, architects, former politicians, neighbourhood advocates and academics.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 January 2019 - 07:12 PM.


#491 Rob Randall

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:02 PM

Has anyone found this open letter?


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#492 AllseeingEye

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:20 PM

Has anyone found this open letter?

It will be presented to Council next Thursday when it will presumably be made public:

 

https://www.vancouri...oria-1.23594801

 

I have really only one question for these 'concerned citizens': if Old Town is so very important why have successive city administrations - going back several decades now in many cases - allowed large sections of the area described in the article linked above to degenerate into the moldering, crumbling, falling down crapulent mess that much of it became until only very recent years? 

 

Until the very recent efforts by Chris LeFevre for example, much of that area was crap, particularly the block(s) around Chatham Street much of which looks like an air force bombing range. 


Edited by AllseeingEye, 12 January 2019 - 08:21 PM.

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#493 Rob Randall

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:32 PM

if Old Town is so very important why have successive city administrations - going back several decades now in many cases - allowed large sections of the area described in the article linked above to degenerate into the moldering, crumbling, falling down crapulent mess that much of it became until only very recent years? 

 

Until the very recent efforts by Chris LeFevre for example, much of that area was crap, particularly the block(s) around Chatham Street much of which looks like an air force bombing range. 

 

You understand, of course, that in order for LeFevre to do his restoration work he first had to wrest the properties from the tight grip of people like Trixie Kramer. City Hall had limited powers in this regard.


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#494 AllseeingEye

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:44 PM

Yup the history of the Janion building is well known unfortunately. But there are countless other buildings in the general area - Chatham Street being the greatest 'offence' IMO that should've been bulldozed years ago - or at the very least taken down to the nuts and studs and redone - but they survive because somehow they're designated as "heritage".

 

Our daughter used to go to gymnastics down on Store Street just past Capital Iron in a worn out, warped old building with an sway back roof more suited for housing cattle than people.

 

That area should be re-developed in one fell swoop. Its nothing more than a hodge-podge of small businesses many in patched up rickety buildings, some of which barely survive: what is the vision for that entire area from Douglas and especially Government to Store Street? Le Fevre has made a start at least by developing those eyesore parking lots across from Capital Iron, but really that entire stretch of Government right out to Bay Street needs a radical re-think and massive overhaul - even more so the blocks between Government and Douglas which for the most part are putrid.....



#495 Nparker

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:57 PM

...that entire stretch of Government right out to Bay Street needs a radical re-think and massive overhaul - even more so the blocks between Government and Douglas which for the most part are putrid.....

+1



#496 spanky123

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 11:44 AM

You understand, of course, that in order for LeFevre to do his restoration work he first had to wrest the properties from the tight grip of people like Trixie Kramer. City Hall had limited powers in this regard.

 

The other issue with a lot of the properties in that area and further north to Rock Bay is that the sites are contaminated. They are ok for industrial use but if you want to redevelop for residential then it would be uneconomical to clean them up.



#497 amor de cosmos

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

Our daughter used to go to gymnastics down on Store Street just past Capital Iron in a worn out, warped old building with an sway back roof more suited for housing cattle than people.


you're not far off, those buildings were the old streetcar barns & they were designed by rattenbury so they aren't going anywhere

#498 aastra

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:59 PM

 

Victoria council should not allow the city’s “historic personality” to be threatened by “facadism” and buildings that are too tall in Old Town, says a group of prominent citizens and heritage advocates.

 

Facadism is a relevant concern, but too-tall-ism is riddled with ridiculous inconsistencies, as we've exposed many times over the years. For crying out loud, lowrise buildings with single-digit floor counts were supposed to be holy, back when nobody thought it would ever be viable to build them. But then the real estate situation changed in the 21st century and lowrise buildings became viable again, and what do you know? Lowrise buildings are now "threatening" in the same way that highrise buildings were threatening ~50 years ago. For anyone new to this board, check out the Northern Junk thread and the earliest proposals there. Five frickin' stories of new construction and with a significant heritage restoration component to boot... and yet it earned the "too tall" stamp.

 

 

• Respect the 15-metre height limit in Old Town, as mandated by the Official Community Plan and Downtown Core Area Plan.

 

A limit that was invented out of thin air, and that several historic buildings did and still do violate. A limit that has nothing to do with the actual historic character of the district.

 

 

• Support the maximum retention of historic structures and fabric, in preference to “facadism” and similar “token measures” of conservation.

 

I'm fully on board with this one, although I don't know how you could make it happen if you weren't willing to give incentives. And then, as always, our definitions and designations would be crucial. Re: the Customs House, would they have classified the 1990s faux facade on the 1950s office block as historic fabric? How about the internal levels of the 1915 building? Considering all of the work that has happened in there over the decades, did they still bear any resemblance to historic structure?

 

etc.


Edited by aastra, 13 January 2019 - 02:36 PM.


#499 aastra

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 02:34 PM

 

...if Old Town is so very important why have successive city administrations - going back several decades now in many cases - allowed large sections of the area described in the article linked above to degenerate into the moldering, crumbling, falling down crapulent mess that much of it became until only very recent years...

 

The anti-downtown movement was a very powerful political force in Victoria after WW2. It still wields a ton of clout. I've noted many times how decay, demolition, modernization of facades, removing levels, "opening things up", introducing green space, etc. were either no big deal or even outright encouraged. What do all of those things have in common? They were all about subverting and unraveling the established urban character of the downtown core. I'm not joking when I say you'll generate much more controversy today when you propose to restore lost heritage than was ever generated when that same heritage was erased back in the day.

 

How about the Janion? Does anybody ever mention it? Such a uniquely Victorian project, and such a tremendous success. You'd think people wouldn't be able to talk about this stuff for two seconds without mentioning the Janion project. Maybe nobody mentions it because it's great and there's nothing scary about it?


Edited by aastra, 15 January 2019 - 12:10 PM.


#500 Nparker

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:23 PM

...For anyone new to this board, check out the Northern Junk thread and the earliest proposals there. Five frickin' stories of new construction and with a significant heritage restoration component to boot... and yet it earned the "too tall" stamp... I'm not joking when I say you'll generate much more controversy today when you propose to restore lost heritage than was ever generated when that same heritage was erased back in the day...

I think the 2012 NJ proposal was a perfect example of restoring lost heritage and I still scratch my head at what was deemed inappropriate about it.

NJ old-4.jpg



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