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Site "C" Dam Project


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#301 jonny

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:54 AM

Quick, back of the envelope calculation. Is reliability worth $50M per year? 

 

MW.png


Edited by jonny, 14 December 2017 - 08:55 AM.


#302 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:58 AM

If I were convinced that environmentalists were ready to accept the large-scale installation of solar panels and wind turbines, I'd be more sympathetic.  But those too will be met with still resistance too.

 

 

 

But Mike Anissimoff, bat conservation specialist with the Canadian Wildlife Federation, sees holes in the province’s guidelines.

 

In an interview, he said the (Alberta) government should have specific plans for both bird and bat populations, and should require extensive monitoring before construction begins in order to set up a “no go map” for wind projects.

 

Anissimoff said new wind projects, because they are sited in rural areas, may affect important bird species that have been less susceptible to cat predation and the varying types of collisions that cause bird deaths in urban areas.

 

The situation is likely more acute for bats, which can be killed not only by colliding with wind turbines but barotrauma — in which the change in air pressure caused by the turbine can be fatal, he said.

Anissimoff said the province’s estimates of bat deaths may be low, noting that one very conservative study put the number for Alberta at around 8,200 annually.

 

With bats’ lower rate of population growth, that raises concern about a significant expansion of turbines in the province.

“It could be suggested the (current) numbers are unsustainable. So, with that increase, it’s very likely these wind turbines will have an adverse impact on population dynamics of local bat species,” said Anissimoff.

 


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 14 December 2017 - 09:01 AM.

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#303 Kikadee

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:08 AM

If we ever want Washington scale hydro-electricity generation then we better get ready to convert the Fraser River between Hope and Prince George into a series of lakes, like the Columbia River is over most of it's length.


The province considered this in the 1940s—but the Fraser was too important in respect of salmon, and the proposals were met with protest by the fishing industry. Being part of the Arctic drainage, we never had to face that issue with the Peace. I imagine it would never have been considered in the first place
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#304 Mike K.

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:23 AM

Wind turbines also cause significant issues for birds. And they emit a hum that can make people fall ill due to infrasound (infrasound can be used to affect everything from someone's mood to their physical wellbeing).


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#305 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

Like the US Cuban embassy workers!
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#306 nagel

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

Who cares about birds.  Seriously most of them are rats of the sky.


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#307 SamCB

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

I think much of the opposition to Site C is coming from an Indigneous Relations / Reconciliation perspective, rather than environmental. This doesn't seem important to your average Joe in BC. But the Horgan goverment has committed fully to adopting UNDRIP - the UN declaration on the rights of Aboriginal Peoples. It's actually a HUGE commitment, and this Site C approval is pretty much in direct opposition of what Horgan has said his BC gov will do with respect to adhering to UNDRIP. There's a whole interesting legal/political/social/historical set of issues here. I don't claim to feel one way or another about it personally, but this really IS a slap in the face to the First Nations. It comes across as Horgan speaking out of both sides of his mouth. I think it might be his first recognition of the fact that "Reconciliation" and "Government" are not... reconcilable. If you look at UNDRIP, it essentially asks governments to give their power to First Nations. The BC NDP/Green Alliance agreed to this. But are finding it much harder to do in practice. 



#308 nerka

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:38 AM

The province considered this in the 1940s—but the Fraser was too important in respect of salmon, and the proposals were met with protest by the fishing industry. Being part of the Arctic drainage, we never had to face that issue with the Peace. I imagine it would never have been considered in the first place

Yup BC Hydro had some massive plans back in the day. In addition to the Fraser they had plans for dams on the Liard, the Stikine, diverting a portion of the Yukon River into the Taku drainage, diverting the Chilko into the Homathko. You name a major river in BC and BC Hydro probably had a plan to dam it or divert it at some point in time.  Environmental impacts with some of these would have been huge.

 

Site C is a rare mega hydro project with relatively modest impacts. The main reason the impacts are relatively modest is because once the first dam is built (WAC Bennett) you have totally changed the river. Subsequent dams have a lesser effect


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#309 RFS

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 12:27 PM

I think much of the opposition to Site C is coming from an Indigneous Relations / Reconciliation perspective, rather than environmental. This doesn't seem important to your average Joe in BC. But the Horgan goverment has committed fully to adopting UNDRIP - the UN declaration on the rights of Aboriginal Peoples. It's actually a HUGE commitment, and this Site C approval is pretty much in direct opposition of what Horgan has said his BC gov will do with respect to adhering to UNDRIP. There's a whole interesting legal/political/social/historical set of issues here. I don't claim to feel one way or another about it personally, but this really IS a slap in the face to the First Nations. It comes across as Horgan speaking out of both sides of his mouth. I think it might be his first recognition of the fact that "Reconciliation" and "Government" are not... reconcilable. If you look at UNDRIP, it essentially asks governments to give their power to First Nations. The BC NDP/Green Alliance agreed to this. But are finding it much harder to do in practice.


And that’s why the UN is totally past due. Seriously it’s time to put that whole organization out to pasture.
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#310 jonny

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 01:19 PM

Who cares about birds.  Seriously most of them are rats of the sky.

 

60a5ab324db2c6ca0c3ba5afb709c29c.jpg

 

I care. 

 

Personally, I hate wind farms. They are uglier than hell. I'd much rather a man made lake. 



#311 Jackerbie

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:31 PM

^ Alberta approved four new wind farms yesterday: http://www.cbc.ca/ne...racts-1.4446746



#312 sdwright.vic

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:57 PM

I actually like the look of wind farms.
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#313 LeoVictoria

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:14 PM

Wind turbines also cause significant issues for birds. And they emit a hum that can make people fall ill due to infrasound (infrasound can be used to affect everything from someone's mood to their physical wellbeing).

 

The illness thing from wind turbines has been proven to be nonsense as far as I know.   About as much credibility as our smart meters causing cancer. 

https://en.wikipedia...urbine_syndrome

 

Also there should be no reason to build a wind farm next to residences in Canada where we have essentially limitless land.



#314 LeoVictoria

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:21 PM

The impact of wind farms on birds is also way overblown.  If you want to save birds, kill all cats.  Cats kill 10,000 times as many birds as windfarms do.   Oh and tear down all buildings, since they kill about 3000 times as many birds as wind farms. 

 

Does go to show that if Site C had been cancelled and they built wind farms instead the exact same people would be out protesting against wind farms.


Edited by LeoVictoria, 14 December 2017 - 04:22 PM.

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#315 Mike K.

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:31 PM

If we want to stop global warming we should kill all cats, too.

Here’s some food for thought from a Canadian research perspective on the potential for adverse effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3653647/

The location point is a valid one. We don’t need to build those things anywhere near people.

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#316 Bingo

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:32 PM

I actually like the look of wind farms.

 

Especially in Holland.



#317 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:33 PM

We can't even kill the deer, doubt we are gonna get popular support to kill all the cats.  


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#318 spanky123

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:19 PM

The impact of wind farms on birds is also way overblown.  If you want to save birds, kill all cats.  Cats kill 10,000 times as many birds as windfarms do.   Oh and tear down all buildings, since they kill about 3000 times as many birds as wind farms. 

 

Does go to show that if Site C had been cancelled and they built wind farms instead the exact same people would be out protesting against wind farms.

 

Birds are one concern but lots of people also complain that wind farms produce low frequency sounds which cause a plethora of ailments.

 

http://www.windvigil...d-wind-turbines


Edited by spanky123, 14 December 2017 - 05:20 PM.


#319 LeoVictoria

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:14 PM

Seriously? You can’t criticize the anti-site c folks for making unscientific arguments and then make the same arguments against wind farms.

There is no such thing as wind farm syndrome just like vaccines don’t cause autism and smart meters don’t cause cancer.

Wind farm ailments are an example of the Nocebo effect.

Edited by LeoVictoria, 14 December 2017 - 06:15 PM.

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#320 sdwright.vic

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:41 PM

Amen (in the COMPLETELY non religious version) brother!

Spanky thing dams are A-Okay, but wind farms are the devil's work?

That's like republicans saying get over it Trump won, but are pisses and won't get over it cause Moore lost.
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